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Politics : Bush-The Mastermind behind 9/11? -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Rock_nj who wrote (6546)	5/20/2004 9:47:13 AM
From: LPS5	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 20039

I'll tell you what, if we had withheld our funding for Isreal [sic] ten years ago, they would have settled with the Palestinians before you could say the word "money". I agree. But, to be blunt, whether the two sides settle or keep fighting isn't terribly important to me; I personally don't care much about the Palestinians, the Israelis, or their respective whining about borders, walls, mythology, laughably-interpreted history, and the like. It's not my land, and it's not my fight. However, what I do think we as a nation could do - and in my opinion what the U.S. should do - is to remove, completely and unconditionally, the financial element which however directed or characterized makes all of us a party to their ongoing dispute. For that matter, I am categorically against any U.S. taxpayer-funded, government expenditures directed to any foreign governments, regardless of where they fall on the spectrum from humanitarian to military aid. LPS5

To: Rock_nj who wrote (6546)	5/20/2004 7:24:48 PM
From: sea_urchin	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 20039

Rock > U.S. support for Isreal has been misguided More than misguided --- an abomination. guardian.co.uk >>The bodies of the children continued to pile up in the mortuary yesterday. Saber Abu Libda, 13, was shot dead by Israeli soldiers after he left his home in Tel al-Sultan in the morning to find water for his family. Dr Nkaria's finger probes a tiny hole in the small child's back which masks the devastation done to his heart as the bullet shot through it. "No one can say this child was a fighter. Look at the size of him and look where they shoot him - in the back, not coming to attack someone," the doctor says. Saber stepped out of the door with his 16-year-old brother Yousef. He too was shot with critical chest injuries. Ayub ran out to save his younger siblings and was also cut down by the snipers. "My brothers only went out for water," Ayub says. "We heard the gunshots and I went to their rescue. They were both lying there bleeding and I was shot in the arm. "We tried to pull Yousef to the house, but we couldn't and he lay there bleeding for half an hour." << Nice.

To: Rock_nj who wrote (6546)	5/21/2004 3:48:39 AM
From: GUSTAVE JAEGER	Respond to of 20039

I fully agree --except for the tagline: Of course, that's political suicide in the U.S., which is why it never happens. I'd write: Of course, that's CIVIL WAR in the U.S., which is why it never happens. I've read over 2,000 pages on the French-Algerian war (1954-62) and the more I think about it the more I view the US-Israeli relationship as the Frankenstein sequel of its French-Algerian precedent... French Algerians --the so-called Pieds Noirs-- also enjoyed a powerful clout/lobby among French lawmakers/elite... Of course, their main argument for keeping Algeria French was not religious: instead, the Pieds-Noirs appealed to the French's sense of patriotism, and also to the fear of Communism. Just like Israelis cry wolf today and tell Europeans "You're next" (after Israel), the Pieds-Noirs claimed that, on the first day following Algerian independence, the Soviet fleet will moor at Mers el-Kebir (then France's largest naval base) --which never happened. Yet, in hindsight, the whole French-Algerian war looks almost like a tragicomedy when compared to the current US-Israeli-Arab crisis: like today's Israel, French Algeria could not stand on her own without France's money but, unlike Israel, Algeria was not a sovereign country. The Algerian authorities were directly accountable to --and appointed by-- the French government. Hence the military and intelligence apparatuses operating in Algeria were subordinated to "Matignon" and the "Elysée"... and, God forbid, the renegade Generals (Salan, Challe, Zeller and Jouhaud) never had the chance to lay their hands on nuclear missiles! But then, Pied-Noir diehards were so naive! When they figured out in 1960 that their dream of keeping Algeria as just another French département was doomed they OPENLY engaged in terrorism!! Can you believe it?!? Salan, Lagaillarde, Degueldre, Susini and other "dogs of war" OPENLY set up the infamous O.A.S. in Madrid in 1961 with the open goal of waging war against the "illegitimate" French government... So French opinion had a much clearer understanding of the conflict: the French couldn't be duped into believing that ALL the terrorism was perpetrated by the (Muslim) FLN and its friendly Arab allies (Tunisia, Egypt). Therefore, the French knew that both camps were involved in terrorism... Another difference between 1950s France and today's America lies in the absence of a French Bible Belt: unlike the US where tens of millions of Southerners are gung-ho about crusading against "ugly Arabs" out of religious fanaticism, most Frenchmen were somewhat lukewarm towards their fellow Pieds-Noirs... Apart from the (far-)right fringe, the military establishment and some businesspeople, the French were not to the point of killing each other over Algeria... Gus