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Politics : Politics for Pros- moderated -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: michael97123 who wrote (46639)	5/24/2004 2:43:27 PM
From: Andrew N. Cothran	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 794009

myohmyohmy! But I am relieved to read your thoughts from your heart of hearts.

To: michael97123 who wrote (46639)	5/24/2004 10:49:54 PM
From: unclewest	Read Replies (4) \| Respond to of 794009

Mike, The world has not ended. We are in a war. You admitted yourself that wars do not go according to plan. We are adjusting. That is what the changes of war require. You appear to be in total panic mode. Take a breath. Have a beer. Go fishing. But man do something. You are swinging and swaying with every different reporter's comments. If we can get Americans like you to get angry at someone besides other Americans it will be an easy run from here. If you continue to demand retribution against other Americans, you become a dead weight, those willing to fight today have to drag around. uw

To: michael97123 who wrote (46639)	5/24/2004 11:03:20 PM
From: unclewest	Respond to of 794009

I can play act voting for kerry but it sickens me to think that it now is in the realm of possibility. Mike, Don't get so sick you fail to vote. You must vote. Vote for your best choice...but please do vote. As long as folks like you exercise their freedom rights America will be OK. If you do nothing but make a lot of noise and soundoff, we are doomed. uw

To: michael97123 who wrote (46639)	5/25/2004 2:32:36 PM
From: Ilaine	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 794009

This is an arrogant, can do no wrong crowd and some of their partisans are right here on this board. Tell me about it. You got another taste of it in response to your post, is my perception. So, how did you like Bush's speech? Did it make you feel more willing to vote for him? Not me. I liked what he has in mind, but it's not enough to keep me from feeling like voting for a third party. The promise to tear down Abu Ghraib and replace it with a nice new maximum security prison was enough to lose my vote right there. Talk about clueless.

To: michael97123 who wrote (46639)	5/25/2004 3:20:16 PM
From: carranza2	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 794009

I can play act voting for kerry but it sickens me to think that it now is in the realm of possibility. Mike, I still don't think that Kerry has a program, at least not one I can identify other than dump the whole Iraq mess on a probably unwilling and potentially corrupt UN, which is no program at all since it will not result in self-rule. I urge you to get beyond the arrogance. It exists on both sides. I assure you that before it's all over you'll concede that Kerry wins the arrogance battle hands down. Bush has a grand vision. It's source is what makes us great as a people--the desire to help change the world for the better. The dificulties arise from the fact that there are tremendous self-interests at work in the ME that under no circumstances want the democratization of Iraq to work. It means the end of their privileges. It would sicken me to see those interests to be aided by well-meaning US citizens like you and many others who have doubts about what we are doing. Please read the article set forth below. Though it's a bit dark in its conclusion, I have not seen such a clear-headed exposition of the issues. The Region: Middle East madness By BARRY RUBIN How do supposedly intelligent people view the Middle East? Recently: The Australian Broadcasting Company's former news director called for Israel's destruction. A majority of "quality" British newspapers falsely claimed Israel deliberately massacred large numbers of children in Gaza after two were killed by accident. A Canadian Broadcasting Company correspondent maliciously concocted a report to convince his viewers that Israel was responsible for the torture of Iraqis by US soldiers. That's in the moderate, Western, English-speaking democracies. Rather than easing the Middle East's madness, the West has caught the disease itself. And what's truly remarkable is that the more the region's dominant system fails and abandons reality, the stronger its ideological defenses and the more successful its export of these ideas. In a likely futile attempt to inject some sanity into the debate, here is a set of principles that better fit the facts. Throw away the above paragraphs – which will soon no doubt be a fading memory in a happier world – and save the rest as a guide to understanding the Middle East. Failed dictatorships: The region is run by dictatorial regimes that are incompetent at doing anything but staying in power. Their citizens lack human, civil, and democratic rights. Their foreign policies lead to disaster and defeat; their economic policies bring stagnation and low living standards. Failed ideologies: The dominant ideology for these regimes is Arab nationalism; for oppositions and for Iran, radical Islamism. These ideas don't fulfill their promises and make things worse. Yet they are maintained through demagoguery and lies, plus a near-monopoly over institutions. The elites' self-interest: Since much of the political, economic, and intellectual elites benefit from this system, they passionately support it. Keeping this structure in power is vital to retaining not only their privileges but perhaps their very lives. For the masses, indoctrination over many years plus traditionalism, repression, and fear of an Islamist regime or anarchy as the most likely alternatives are powerful inducements to stand by their dictator. The successful use of scapegoats: A critical element in the system's ability to convince the people that their real enemies are the US, Israel, and the West in general (along with modernization, democratization, globalism, Westernization, etc). One should either support the dictatorship as a pious and patriotic action against satanic forces or join the opposition, which promises to fight them better. Thus, even moderate regimes, needing anti-Americanism and the Arab-Israeli conflict in order to survive, promote them in their propaganda and behavior. THE REAL origins of terrorism: The failure of Islamists to take over Arab countries in the quarter-century following Iran's Islamist revolution convinced some radicals in each country that a new strategy was needed. They thus went from the idea of trying to seize power in one state at a time to the global Jihadist movement. Rather than fight Arab nationalist ideology they would steal its program, concluding that murdering Jews and Christians would be more popular than killing fellow Muslims. The regimes collaborated in this process by going easy on the movement – and even reinforcing the ideology – as long as the violence was being perpetrated on someone else. Refusal to end the Arab-Israeli conflict: When offered serious proposals for peace in 2000 (at Camp David and in the Clinton plan), Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat rejected them because his goal is: a) keep the conflict going until final total victory is achieved in eliminating Israel; or b) accept only an agreement easy to use for launching another round to achieve that result. Syria rejected the entire Golan Heights' return. However strange it might seem, Arab regimes and elites want to sustain a conflict they need in order to preserve themselves. Israel: Israel is a victim and not the cause of this situation. It is ready for a real peace based on a Palestinian state and an end to violence, suffering now from the risks it has taken in this effort. The United States: The US is truly trying to help the region because it believes that to do so is not only right but also in its own self-interest. Whatever mistakes they make, the US and Israel are democratic countries trying to cope with extraordinarily difficult situations using far more restraint and conscience than anyone else would have in these circumstances. As in World War II and the Cold War, their adversaries are far worse, nefarious forces who employ the most misleading propaganda to portray them as evil. Those in the West who buy these lies are fools. The problem in Iraq: In Iraq too, former and would-be rulers have used the same tools and strategy discussed above. Rather than let the US withdraw and peacefully work out their own differences democratically, they are using violence and demagoguery to try to seize power by blaming everything on an external enemy. The lack of a solution: There is no ideal policy or great solution to all these problems. Democratization is not going to happen because the forces that support it are too weak and those opposing it too strong. Trying to impose an external solution by diplomatic gimmick, appeasement, military force or any other means won't work. This system is going to continue until it is defeated from within, and that day is far off. A pessimistic assessment? That is irrelevant. What is important is that people hold an accurate view of the situation, and act accordingly. jpost.com