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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: cnyndwllr who wrote (135042)	5/31/2004 1:27:17 AM
From: Dr. Id	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 281500

Published on Wednesday, May 12, 2004 by In These Times Cold Turkey by Kurt Vonnegut Many years ago, I was so innocent I still considered it possible that we could become the humane and reasonable America so many members of my generation used to dream of. We dreamed of such an America during the Great Depression, when there were no jobs. And then we fought and often died for that dream during the Second World War, when there was no peace. But I know now that there is not a chance in hell of America’s becoming humane and reasonable. Because power corrupts us, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Human beings are chimpanzees who get crazy drunk on power. By saying that our leaders are power-drunk chimpanzees, am I in danger of wrecking the morale of our soldiers fighting and dying in the Middle East? Their morale, like so many bodies, is already shot to pieces. They are being treated, as I never was, like toys a rich kid got for Christmas. ------------------------- When you get to my age, if you get to my age, which is 81, and if you have reproduced, you will find yourself asking your own children, who are themselves middle-aged, what life is all about. I have seven kids, four of them adopted. Many of you reading this are probably the same age as my grandchildren. They, like you, are being royally shafted and lied to by our Baby Boomer corporations and government. I put my big question about life to my biological son Mark. Mark is a pediatrician, and author of a memoir, The Eden Express. It is about his crackup, straightjacket and padded cell stuff, from which he recovered sufficiently to graduate from Harvard Medical School. Dr. Vonnegut said this to his doddering old dad: “Father, we are here to help each other get through this thing, whatever it is.” So I pass that on to you. Write it down, and put it in your computer, so you can forget it. I have to say that’s a pretty good sound bite, almost as good as, “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.” A lot of people think Jesus said that, because it is so much the sort of thing Jesus liked to say. But it was actually said by Confucius, a Chinese philosopher, 500 years before there was that greatest and most humane of human beings, named Jesus Christ. The Chinese also gave us, via Marco Polo, pasta and the formula for gunpowder. The Chinese were so dumb they only used gunpowder for fireworks. And everybody was so dumb back then that nobody in either hemisphere even knew that there was another one.

To: cnyndwllr who wrote (135042)	5/31/2004 10:11:49 AM
From: Hawkmoon	Respond to of 281500

There may be time when their society, their culture and their circumstances evolve and they are ready for our system of government, or simply a different one that's more enlightened in their eyes. There you go again CD... Trying to tell us to take a "passive" approach, claiming it will "all work itself out for the better" over time... BUT WHY DO YOU CONTINUE TO IGNORE THE FACT THAT THE MILITANT ISLAMIC LEADERSHIP DOES NOT SHARE YOUR BELIEF IN PASSIVITY?? They don't believe it will "all work out" in their favor. They are taking AGGRESSIVE measures to make sure that it does, including teaching young people militant religious beliefs and indoctrinating and brain-washing millions of them to become suicidal martyrs and Jihadists.. And your only recommendation is to just "let it happen" because it will work out over time.. Middle Eastern societies are going to change, regardless of your passivity. The question is what values are going to dominate that change. What values are going to be taught to the children who will act upon them as young adults? And I'm telling you that if we don't help create the conditions where POSITIVE CHANGE can prosper, the only change that will occur is replacing one totalitarian and repressive, but externally benign, system for an even more violent one that seeks to unify these young muslims into an aggressive force for waging wage against the West. Sure it's their society and we can't tell them what ideology they eventually follow. They have to make that choice. But we can help to assist the moderate and progressive elements to have a fighting chance against the violence and intimidation that the militants are VERY willing to use against anyone who opposes them. Why don't you just go put your head back in the sand (or any other dark orifice you prefer). It's pretty obvious that you have little understanding of what's transpiring in the mid-east, just like most Europeans and Americans chose to ignore the storm that was rising in Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan. Hawk