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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Neocon who wrote (137818)	6/24/2004 2:08:24 PM
From: cnyndwllr	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 281500

I feel a burst of renewed energy in my arm. But there is also an interesting issue in the case of Germany: in a dictatorial regime, is there ever meaningful consent of the governed? After all, the populace is subject aggressive propaganda; the absense of civil liberties, including the ability of opposing views to be disseminated; and is in constant fear of the secret police. To what extent do we associate a populace drawn towards war after years under the regime with the regimes actions? It is arguable that the Germans were, in fact, liberated........ What a novel concept. If we say that in any government short of a democracy the governed never give "meaningful consent" to be governed, then we have a lot of "liberation" ahead of us. If that's the case it makes sense to liberate those people first whose nations have natural resources or strategic locations that are beneficial to our other needs. Hence the first liberation in Afghanistan where we were threatened with violence and the second in the nation with the second greatest accessible oil reserves in the world. This "liberation" thing could be a very useful in an Orwellian sense.

To: Neocon who wrote (137818)	6/24/2004 5:49:38 PM
From: smolejv@gmx.net	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

>>It is arguable that the Germans were, in fact, liberated<< I would actually welcome the discussion about 'liberation of Germans' - even if it's 60 years since: there's still enough to be learned from that experience. To kick it off, I'd rather use the expression "deconditioned" instead of "liberated". It's provocative enough - I hope; FAPP (for all practical purposes) though, I dont think a) it has much to do with US' foreign affairs and b) has anything generic to it - Germanic experience is indeed sui generis, compared to what we face these days.