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Politics : Formerly About Advanced Micro Devices -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: i-node who wrote (193142)	7/2/2004 6:02:19 PM
From: Road Walker	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 1572206

This is what the founding fathers had in mind? Disgusting, even to Christian conservatives. Bush Seeks to Mobilize Religious Conservatives Thu Jul 1, 8:04 PM ET Add Politics to My Yahoo! By David Morgan WASHINGTON (Reuters) - President Bush (news - web sites), seeking to mobilize religious conservatives for his reelection campaign, has asked church-going volunteers to turn over church membership directories, campaign officials said on Thursday. In a move sharply criticized both by religious leaders and civil libertarians, the Bush-Cheney campaign has issued a guide listing about two-dozen "duties" and a series of deadlines for organizing support among conservative church congregations. A copy of the guide obtained by Reuters directs religious volunteers to send church directories to state campaign committees, identify new churches that can be organized by the Bush campaign and talk to clergy about holding voter registration drives. The document, distributed to campaign coordinators across the country earlier this year, also recommends that volunteers distribute voter guides in church and use Sunday service programs for get-out-the-vote drives. "We expect this election to be potentially as close as 2000, so every vote counts and it's important to reach out to every single supporter of President Bush," campaign spokesman Scott Stanzel said. But the Rev. Richard Land, who deals with ethics and religious liberty issues for the Southern Baptist Convention, a key Bush constituency, said he was "appalled." "First of all, I would not want my church directories being used that way," he told Reuters in an interview, predicting failure for the Bush plan. The conservative Protestant denomination, whose 16 million members strongly backed Bush in 2000, held regular drives that encouraged church-goers to "vote their values," said Land. "But it's one thing for us to do that. It's a totally different thing for a partisan campaign to come in and try to organize a church. A lot of pastors are going to say: 'Wait a minute, bub'," he added. The guide surfaced as a spate of opinion polls showed Bush's reelection campaign facing a tough battle. A Wall Street Journal/NBC poll showed Bush running neck-and-neck with Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry (news - web sites) among registered voters, 47 percent of whom said they now believed the president had misled Americans about the threat posed by Saddam Hussein (news - web sites)'s Iraq (news - web sites). The Bush campaign has also been spending heavily on television ads, only to see the president's approval ratings slump to new lows. Stanzel said the campaign ended the month of June with $64 million on hand. He had no figures on how much Bush has raised in June. At the end of May, Bush had raised $213.4 million and spent all but $63 million. The latest effort to marshal religious support also drew fire from civil liberties activists concerned about the constitutional separation of church and state. "Any coordination between the Bush campaign and church leaders would clearly be illegal," said a statement from the activist group Americans United for Separation of Church and State.

To: i-node who wrote (193142)	7/2/2004 6:10:49 PM
From: tejek	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 1572206

>> stop fukking with the Constitution and the intent of our founding fathers: It cannot be argued that the Constitution (or Jerfferson) contemplated as a great a wall between church and state as we have today. Did you read Jefferson's letter? The irony is that back then most people in the colonies/first states were Christians. However, they were concerned that the Church of England would try to insert themselves into the gov't. That's why he was very clear that their should be a clear division between the two. Today we need the separation of church and state even more because the religions in this country have multipied plus there are many more agnostics/atheists. Besides, its worked very well for over two hundreds year......why fix what's not broke. The reality is what we have today is the result of liberal extremism, a persistent liberal bent put forth by the likes of Michael Newdow, and that it does not now nor has it ever represented the mainstream view. Well, the last of your liberal remnants is falling by the wayside. Just a year ago, you were much more supportive of the separation of church and state. Attending a lot of RNC meetings lately? It is unfortunate that there is a chronic push to the Left that results in constant revisionism of the founding principles of our nation. Liberalism is great for youngsters and idiots, but it is a threat to our nation as we've seen during the years since 9/11. And your posts remind me why its imperative that we get the right out of power.....reactionary, revisionists, narrow minded, anal......are some of the words that come to mind. You would stifle progress and push this nation into one chaotic mess after another. Its enough......enjoy it while it lasts.

To: i-node who wrote (193142)	7/5/2004 3:37:28 AM
From: Amy J	Respond to of 1572206

David, news.messages.yahoo.com ======================================================== "America is NOT a christian nation" by: mirandawritz (225/US Constitution, First Amd) 06/22/04 05:56 pm Msg: 8 of 607 19 recommendations Well, the christian jihadists are at it again. No surprise that it is the GOP that is at odds with the US Constitution. As whether this is a xtian nation, well here is what the FIRST President (a George too ) had to say about the subject; "The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion." Georege Washington, Treaty of Tripoli, 1796 Now which George would YOU trust about what the United States is??? Sorry I trust George Washington'w word (after all he WAS THERE when the USA was Founded) and NOT the word of some partisan Texans who do NOT understand the very document that this country was Founded on. Time to STOP the Holy War of the US chrisitian Jihad. ALL Americans that rightfully care about our freedom should take a HARD look at these "dividers" who are ignorant of the laws of the United States. How SAD, that we STILl have to fight these theocrates over 200 years after Washington and the Founders gave us this great nation, Founded on the humanist ideals of Locke, Rosseau, Franklin and Jefferson and NOT on the christian ideals of Hume, HObbes and the Church of England. I think that the school system in Texas needs some work on their American History courses. They sound more like Mein Kampf than My Country. For any who agree with the jihadi drivel, I suggest you read what the REAL Patriot George (Washington that is) had to say ======================================================== Re: Question to Cons by: mirandawritz (225/US Constitution, First Amd) 06/22/04 11:13 pm Msg: 216 of 607 19 recommendations ... here is what the Founders stated: Thomas Jefferson wrote many a diatribe against Christianity. George Washington stated several times that the United States were NOT founded on the ideals of Christianity. Benjamin Franklin spoke of the evils of a nation that endorses only one brand of religion. "Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law." -Thomas Jefferson, letter to Dr. Thomas Cooper, February 10, 1814 "In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own." -Thomas Jefferson, letter to Horatio G. Spafford, March 17, 1814 "I do not find in orthodox Christianity one redeeming feature." -Thomas Jefferson "The Bible is not my book and Christianity is not my religion. I could never give assent to the long complicated statements of Christian dogma." -Abraham Lincoln "Religion is a subject on which I have ever been most scrupulously reserved. I have considered it as a matter between every man and his Maker, in which no other, and far less the PUBLIC, had a right to intermeddle." --Thomas Jefferson to Richard Rush, 1813. "As I understand the Christian religion, it was, and is, a revelation. But how has it happened that millions of fables, tales, legends, have been blended with both Jewish and Christian revelation that have made them the most bloody religion that ever existed?" - John Adams, letter to F.A. Van der Kamp, Dec. 27, 1816 "It is not to be understood that I am with him (Jesus Christ) in all his doctrines. I am a Materialist; he takes the side of Spiritualism; he preaches the efficacy of repentence toward forgiveness of sin; I require a counterpoise of good works to redeem it. Among the sayings and discourses imputed to him by his biographers, I find many passages of fine imagination, correct morality, and of the most lovely benevolence; and others, again, of so much ignorance, so much absurdity, so much untruth, charlatanism and imposture, as to pronounce it impossible that such contradictions should have proceeded from the same being." - Thomas Jefferson to W. Short, 1820 "I wish it (Christianity) were more productive of good works ... I mean real good works ... not holy-day keeping, sermon-hearing ... or making long prayers, filled with flatteries and compliments despised by wise men, and much less capable of pleasing the Deity." - Benjamin Franklin Works, Vol. VII, p. 75 "The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason." - Benjamin Franklin James Madison (the fourth President of the United States) Memorial and Remonstrance Against Religious Assessments: “Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise....During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less, in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in laity; in both, superstition, bigotry, and persecution.” Additional quote from James Madison: “Religion and government will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.” news.messages.yahoo.com ======================================================