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Politics : Politics for Pros- moderated -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: Lane3 who wrote (52687)7/3/2004 4:49:26 PM
From: LindyBill  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 793592
 
Failing that bit of creative destruction, and in the limited context of the current scenario, I think the best approach is civil unions for gays.

I don't remember you saying that, or we wouldn't have had this go around.

I think that marriage is broken to the point of near meaninglessness.

I don't agree. I was always a "stick together for the kids" type. That's what I did, and I don't regret it. My parents got divorced when I was twelve, and my sisters were seven and six. It made growing up tougher.



To: Lane3 who wrote (52687)7/3/2004 6:02:39 PM
From: bela_ghoulashi  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 793592
 
Well, our family is about to celebrate my parents' 50th wedding anniversary at the end of this month.

I don't consider that broken or meaningless at all.

Most of the ladies I've known in my lifetime don't consider it meaningless either. But there have been one or two exceptions. In most cases, they have overwhelmingly aspired to it, with varying degrees of urgency.



To: Lane3 who wrote (52687)7/3/2004 8:58:40 PM
From: Ilaine  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 793592
 
If the state has to be involved at all, and I'm not sure why it does

From a legal perspective, marriage is purely a matter of law. Church involvement in religion is pretty much meaningless, although courts do enforce marriage contracts which were entered into for religious purposes - gets, ktubas, and the like - as long as they meet the legal definition of a contract, the religious implications being also meaningless.

It varies from state to state, but one of the most dramatic areas, in my opinion, is Louisiana, which, as you know, has the Civil Code, commonly called the Napoleonic Code, although that's somewhat of a misnomer.

Under Louisiana law, the property of married people is governed by community property laws, and I won't bore you with them, but I would guess that you know more than you realize about community property from reading about celebrity divorces in California, which is also a community property state. As is Texas, and a couple of others. Rule of thumb, the divorcing spouses split the community 50-50.

In Virginia, in the absence of a prenuptual agreement (or a postnuptial, same difference) marriage gives you quite a few rights: an interest in all property acquired during the marriage by the efforts of either party, which means cash, bank accounts, real property, retirement accounts, brokerage accounts, automobiles, furniture, jewelry, boats, horses, anything you can think of, even if it's not jointly titled, your spouse has an inchoate interest in that property, which become choate in the event of death or divorce.

Your spouse owes you the duty of support. If the spouses are separated, and one spouse has the ability to pay and the other has the need for payment, then the court will award spousal support, typical award in the range of 25%-30% of the payor's gross income. There is a rebuttable presumption that this will continue for a period of years equal to the duration of the marriage. This is a recent change, it used to be forever.

If you run up medical bills or other bills due to illness, or other necessities during marriage, your spouse is obligated to pay them.

You have the right to inherit from your spouse upon death.

According to US law, if you have been married for ten years, you have the right to a share of your spouse's Social Security even after divorce, unless you remarry.

Also according to US law, you have a right to a share of your spouse's private retirement monies (ERISA, a trap for the unwary).

There's more, I just can't think of it off the top of my head.

In contrast, if you have a religious ceremony but no civil ceremony, you are not married according to the laws of any state, although you may start the clock ticking towards common law marriage if you live in one of the few states which recognizes it.

Marriage and divorce are very big business in America. The vast majority of Americans will marry, and the vast majority of divorced people will remarry.

Rumors of the death of marriage are greatly exaggerated.

That said, I really don't have a problem with gay marriage. My guess is that the vast majority will be lesbians, who would live quietly together for the rest of their lives, marriage or no marriage.