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Politics : PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Srexley who wrote (589558)	7/12/2004 3:47:49 PM
From: Johannes Pilch	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 769670

[the destruction of the Midianites] is ordered by God (in their belief). Pretty simple. You, of course, are most correct. Steven severely misrepresents the text and employs a theologically inconsistent view of it by claiming the invasion was led by man. The text is clear in two places, one of which Steven conveniently omits, that God Himself commanded this invasion. In Numbers 31:1-2 the text is clear that God wished Moses to judge the Midianites, taking vengeance upon them. In Numbers 31: 3 the text is very clear that Moses attacked Midian “as the Lord commanded.” Moses did not command his troops independent of God’s will, as Steven claims (the guy really is dishonest). Moses was The Prophet of Israel. God spoke to him particularly to lead Israel. When God commanded Moses to take vengeance upon Israel, it is important that we understand why, if we wish to understand the command. The Midianites were responsible for luring Israel into impurity (Num. 25:16-18), which as I have already shared, is quite counter to God’s agenda. The women in particular were responsible for this. God’s judging them was not like killing goats. Goats are not moral agents. The Midianites were indeed moral agents. God used Moses to judge the Midianites because they used their moral agency to live contrary to God. God can judge wicked people however He wishes. Women in Midian who had not slept with men were spared in this instance because they obviously had not been involved with the reason for the vengeance in the first place. So they were folded into Israel. But the Hebrew men, apparently Simeonites (Num. 25:14-18), who were involved were destroyed. The Hebrew census records at first that there were 59,300 Simeonites (Num. 1:23). By the time this event was finished, that number had been diminished to 22,200 (Num. 26:14). From the Christian perspective, God’s agenda is to save True Israel, converting those who will enter her into Jews and allowing the rest to perish. That is what is behind John 3:16. People will indeed perish, even according to Jesus Himself. The event in Num. 31 is but one of many warnings of the judgment to come. And this is a GREAT argument to not believe in the bible imo. It is not even a great argument not to believe the Bible because what it does is assume man is more moral and more knowledgeable than God. A great reason not to believe the Bible would be found in the certainty that the God it depicts does not exist. If this God does not exist, then He may be safely ignored. But if He does exist, we ignore His wishes at our certain peril. I believe He exists, so I make it my business to hear what He is saying. I think it is just fine that others are certain that He does not exist, and you will never find me trying to convince them otherwise. But they ought not lie against the text before us. See the thing as it is with respect to its history and purpose and then make a judgment. But what Steven does, anachronistically employing culture and terms against the text, is just plain intellectually dishonest.