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Pastimes : Ask God -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: Berry Picker who wrote (38074)7/18/2004 11:50:02 PM
From: Berry Picker  Read Replies (3) | Respond to of 39621
 
John 6:37 "All that the Father gives Me will come to Me,
and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out.

This verse alone proves that God the Father chooses who will be saved.

Men teach that the Father give all men to the son but only those men
Who chose Jesus will be saved – a sad image of God and utter heresy.

If that were true then really the Father is not the one choosing at all.

The text plainly say ALL those whom the Father gives to the son
WILL COME TO HIM and that the son will reject none
of those thus chosen.

Jesus taught that He died for the SHEEP this of itself teaches
that Jesus did not die for all men. If Jesus did die for
all men then Jesus only needed to say
“I lay down my life for all men”
but he purposely teaches that he lays down His life
for the SHEEP and that all men are not sheep.

Men then teach that we can choose to be a goat or a sheep
or that goats are becoming sheep on a daily basis through
faith – that is not what Jesus said:

John 10:15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father:
and I lay down my life for the sheep.
16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold:
them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice;
and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

Jesus says that some men that are not yet brought are
sheep not goats waiting to become sheep. Keep reading..

26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep,
as I said unto you.

Here Jesus teaches that men were not believing
BECAUSE they were not sheep Jesus
does not teach that they are not sheep because they do
not yet believe – that is the opposite of what Christ taught.

27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

It is the sheep who both hear and believe – they believe
because they are lost sheep whom Jesus finds and returns
to the Father - Jesus is the good shepherd.

Even Peter teaches this concept – Peter does not say you
were goats gone astray but now you have become sheep.

1 Peter 2:25 For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now
returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.

Men say “All are called but few choose”

but Jesus said:

Matthew 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

God chooses entire households to be saved often.

Now you can only understand being chosen in two ways.

Either men are chosen on the basis of their response or works
or they were chosen as sheep long before they were called and
ordained unto eternal life:

Acts 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad,
and glorified the word of the Lord:
and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

The bible clearly says that the ones ordained to eternal life
believed – not as may as believed were then ordained
That however is what many false teaches teach today.
The Word of God plainly says the ordained ones believed
the rest would not and could not.

The multitude of verses that teach that God elects some men
to mercy
and others to be hardened are too numerous to mention.

Here are but a few more:

John 5:21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and
quickeneth them;even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.

Jesus chooses to quicken (cause to be born again) whoever He wills

God does not spend 99% of His time crying as some men teach.

Romans 9:18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have
mercy,
and whom he will he hardeneth.

God hardens in their sin whoever He chooses to be a vessel of dishonor.

Romans 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he
also called: and whom he called, them he also justified:
and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Jesus calls those whom the Father has predestinated
this verse reveals what Jesus was saying when He said
many are called but few are chosen.

Men are not chosen on the basis of their works.

Other men (who are not predestinated) are also "called"
because they are the seed by the wayside and stony
ground.
The “good soil” is the elect - the chosen ones – those who
have been predestinated by God before the world began.

None of us is “good” soil in themselves – we are dead in sin.

Ephesians 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him
before the foundation of the world,
that we should be
holy and without blame before him in love:

For men to teach that it is the will of men in choosing Christ
as their “personal savior” is to say men are saved by works.
Works of the flesh – in fact the will of the flesh.

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he
power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe
on his name:

Men teach that receiving Christ is “accepting Christ”
by the power of their own "free" will – but keep reading….

13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the
flesh, nor of the will of man,
but of God.

John plainly teaches that “receiving” is passive – it is like
receiving e-mail – you do nothing it just comes.
It is not an actof the will or accepting anything – it is
NOT AN ACTIVE WILLFUL CHOICE

Salvation is the Gift of God and even Faith is not of yourselves:

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith;
and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:


Being chosen by God apart from any foreseen works of faith
or otherwise is so basic that Jesus rebuked Nicodemus
for not understanding such a fundamental truth.

John 3: 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh;
and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the
sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where
it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit."
so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

The Holy Spirit goes where it wishes –
those whom God chooses are born again –
they must come – the fallen will of man is not stronger
than God.
God does not turn goats into sheep –
Jesus came to gather the lost sheep.

The goats are not to be gathered now or ever.

They are the wolves – and though they may put upon
themselves the image and appearance of sheep they
were born to this condemnation even as was Judas and Pharaoh or King Saul.

Jude 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares,
who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ….

God before the world began and before Adam ever sinned
elected who would be saved in Christ Jesus the Son by the
all powerful Saving grace of His blood.

The bible calls the chosen ones the “Elect of God” they did
not ELECT themselves unto this honor indeed
they will all agree none of them are in any way worthy
of this honor – those who think they have elected themselves
insult God with the highest of insults and a spirit of pride
based in their own efforts and works or righteousness.

Colossians 3:12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God,
holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness,
humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;

Revelation 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship
him, whose names are not written in the book of life
of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.


Those who were not written would worship the beast
not the other way around – men corrupt scripture.

Hebrews 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn,
which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all,
and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

1 Peter 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father,
through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and
sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you,
and peace, be multiplied.

Luke 10:20 Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits
are subject unto you; but rather rejoice,
because your names are written in heaven.

When were their names written there?

Before or after Jesus chose them?

John 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you,
and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit,
and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall
ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.


Luke 22:31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan
hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat:
32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not:
and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.

Can Jesus being God have His prayers fail??? Never !!!

If Jesus has prayed for you – you will be saved.

Did Jesus pray for everyone – no.

John 17:9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world,
but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.


Jesus prayed only for the chosen ones whom the Father
had written in the book of Life before the world even began.

Revelation 20:15 And if any was not found written in the book
of life, he was cast into the lake of fire.

People say the election and predestination are not in scripture?

Are they blind?

Perhaps they really are.

John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

Brian



To: Berry Picker who wrote (38074)7/19/2004 9:14:52 AM
From: haqihana  Respond to of 39621
 
brian, You should learn to read, period. Jesus also said that those that believe in Him will have everlasting life. The "sheep" he spoke of were those that had come, and will come, to believe in him as Lord, and Savior. Only egotistical, pompous, asses like you would think that the statement was meant only for the selected few.

Now I know what your problem is. You can read but do not know the meaning of the words that you read. Comprehension is a major requirement of reading, or like you, the wrong meanings will be used to preach untruths. Perhaps your eyes are befuddled by the glare of gold, and precious stones, that you boast of making so much money by peddling them.
Another thing that Jesus said, that you have never mentioned, is that a rich man can get into Heaven as easily as a camel can get through the eye of a needle. If your boasts are true, you're going to have to squeeze that huge head down a lot to make it through the portal.



To: Berry Picker who wrote (38074)7/19/2004 1:48:48 PM
From: Emile Vidrine  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 39621
 
A Holy Spirit inspired antidote to Knoch's Universalism.

Luke 13

"23": Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them,

"24": Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.

"25": When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are: