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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: unclewest who wrote (141834)	7/29/2004 10:54:04 AM
From: cnyndwllr	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

Sorry, like Kerry and the winter soldiers, I doubt you a lot. Surely you understand they were phonies and lied...even under oath before congress. You should know that I won't let that go unchallenged. I've pm'd you in the past but you've evidently forgotten. What information do you need from me in order to verify my service? Let me know by pm and I'll pm you right back. When I'm through I'd like you to publicly acknowledge that you were dead wrong. In the meantime, three things. First, you like to put everyone in one basket. Kerry accused "all vets" of atrocities. The winter soldiers "were phonies and lied," in your view yet, at best, all you can really claim is that a few might have lied. And of course anyone that substantially disagrees with your view of the war and politics must be a "phoney." The problem with that kind of "right or wrong" thinking is that the world isn't so simple that we all see it the same way. YOU might need to believe in a bad war that was continued by people who would, in my opinion, have NEVER have found enough justification for it if they were where I was, doing what I was, but I DON'T need to believe in that war, and I don't. That's the way it is and there are a lot of us who didn't build our lives around the army and who got out and have an entirely different perspective than you do. The fact that you stayed in doesn't make you any more politically savvy than we are and it certainly doesn't mean that we weren't there. Second, when I said that my war was a little different from yours, I wasn't implying that you had it better. What I was pointing out was that there were differences. You spent at least part of your time in places where you could "build schools." I spent almost all of my time in places where the "other side" were all NVA and lived on the ground or in bunker complexes. You were an officer and I was an enlisted man who left Vietnam as an E-5. I didn't spend time in officers clubs, on the few times I was out of the field and could do so, I went to enlisted men's clubs and there weren't any officers around. As you know, the officers had their own, and better, clubs, latrines and mess halls. You can probably talk about places in Vietnam, I can remember jungle in Vietnam but couldn't point it out within a hundred kilometers on a map. We went where the choppers took us or where we could cut our way through thick jungle or follow trails and it didn't matter to us where it was, just what was there and whether we'd get back to the LZ. The "places" I remember are the 1st cav center in Bien Hua, a special forces section of, I believe, either Bien Hua or Song Be that had a px and another place that you'll remember and that I visited when my company sent me to "combat leaders" training for a few days, the hospital in Saigon but only from the inside, Tay Ninh, an aid station in Cu Chi, the malaria center in Cameron Bay, the nco club at Ton Son Nut air base, Australia for RxR with Kings Cross and the Whiskey a Go Go, Lz Grant, Lz Lee, and a couple more Lz's whose names I've forgotten. Everything else was jungle and we never slept on the same ground twice. Third, unlike you, I am not doubting your service or the valor you displayed and I SURE AS HELL AM NOT DENIGRATING IT. I said you were the real deal and I mean it. That doesn't mean I defer to your political views, I don't. I do respect your right to hold them. But with all due respect, I was as good in Vietnam as anyone, including special forces, and I won't tolerate anyone calling me a "phoney." Let's make a deal. You pm me your mailing address or fax number. I'll trust you to keep my name and information confidential and then I'll fax you my dd214. You can call me if you want to verify the information on that. When you've satisfied yourself that you're dead wrong, then you eat a little humble pie and publicly take back your "phoney" bullshit. How about it?