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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Sun Tzu who wrote (142314)	8/2/2004 1:58:27 PM
From: Sig	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 281500

It seems to me your discussion revolves upon when a scientific method was recognized and became popular. There would have been minds in the ancient world that used experiments to obtain working systems- such as Archimedes who invented the screw and developed a water pump from it. But the powers of politics and religion did not welcome another force in the world which would distract mens minds.

To: Sun Tzu who wrote (142314)	8/2/2004 2:40:05 PM
From: Neocon	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

As I said, I am prepared to call it all science, if you like, so long as you acknowledge the radically different footing of modern science. If the scientific method existed before the 16th century, it still had a determinate beginning in time, and a determinate locus, and it still would be one of the main things distinguishing the modern era from the ancient. The difference would be that it was pushed up a few centuries. Clearly, though, it didn't "take", and did not become characteristic of Arab or Muslim culture, as it became central to modern culture. The issue is precisely the degree to which medicine develops in relation to scientific protocols. Science enables many people who would either be dead or deeply infirm live decently. My brother, for example, has cerebral palsy. He is confined to a wheelchair. He would probably be dead without modern medicine, but certainly would have not much of a life if it were not for "gizmos" like electric wheelchairs, cell phones, computers, electric beds, and other things which permit him an amazing degree of mobility, human contact even when confined by inclement weather, and comfort. It makes it possible for many people to escape sheer drudgery, and allows them the leisure to cultivate social ties and personal accomplishments. It frees them from an abyss of ignorance, if they care to take advantage, and permits them a higher quality of entertainment than they might find in a bucolic backwater. It provides potable water and sanitation so that one does not walk through garbage on the average town's streets. It provides reliable illumination, so that it is easy enough to read in the evening, or to be safer walking the streets. It ensures a varied diet year round, by making it possible to ship food enormous distances. It permits air conditioning and reliable heating, so that people get less ill from the weather. In all kinds of ways, it makes it possible to enjoy life rather than endure it, and to spend "quality time" with others. It allows people who live at a distance to easily visit, or to keep in touch through phones, e- mail, and snail mail; it makes it more likely that grandma and grandpa will live to see their grandchildren, and still have some life left in them to enjoy it; and it makes it more possible for people to find others with compatible interests, instead of being confined to those who happen to live close by. Sure, people have to take advantage of these opportunities, but they are there in large part because of science and gizmos........