Silicon Investor (SI) -- The First Internet Community

STOCKTALK

We've detected that you're using an ad content blocking browser plug-in or feature. Ads provide a critical source of revenue to the continued operation of Silicon Investor. We ask that you disable ad blocking while on Silicon Investor in the best interests of our community. If you are not using an ad blocker but are still receiving this message, make sure your browser's tracking protection is set to the 'standard' level.

Politics : Bush-The Mastermind behind 9/11? -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: LPS5 who wrote (7725)	8/12/2004 2:50:20 PM
From: Rock_nj	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 20039

There's a big difference. Execution is final. Torture is not. I certainly wouldn't want to see them tortured to death. My point is, that if someone's going to advocate something as unusual as torture, then they should be willing to have themselves subjected to it as well. It's one thing to sit in some ivory tower and write about the virtues of torture, and a whole other thing to be subjected to it yourself and then write in favor of it. I'm against torture, I'm saying if one is in favor or it, then I don't see why they'd have a problem being a test subject? Unless they are a complete hyprocrite, which I suspect most of the torture advocates are. This is exactly one of the reasons I oppose capital punishment. I say if one is in favor of capital punishment, then they have to conceed that the state has the right to take their life (an interesting thing for a Libertarian to contemplate). I don't believe the state should have that right, and certainly even if they do, I don't think the state should spend their resources killing people. I mean, we spend billions of dollars on police/firemen/doctors, etc. to save peoples lives. It's a central organizing principal of our society, to save lives. I don't see why we should also be in the business of taking lives, no matter what the circumstance is. Let em rot in jail for their crimes, some are innocent anyway, in which case it would be tatamount to state murder. I was on the fence on capital punishment for years, but after seeing so many innocent people released from death row and after considering the extrodinary efforts we spend to save people's lives, it just doesn't make any sense in a civilized society.

To: LPS5 who wrote (7725)	8/13/2004 3:50:59 AM
From: GUSTAVE JAEGER	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 20039

Re: Should individuals in favor of capital punishment be executed? That's quite a silly, if captious, question... Should individuals in favor of abortion undergo an abortion themselves? Then how would you proceed with males? [chuckle] Should individuals in favor of gay marriage wed a gay/lesbian partner? Should people in favor of immigration immigrate themselves? and on, and on, and on.... Actually you missed the main point which was: "It has no place in civilized society."() Torture is indeed part of the litmus test that allows us to sort out barbaric societies/countries/regimes from civilized ones. Bear in mind that the same people --Alan Dershowitz and his ilk-- who advocate the use of torture used to vilify the Taliban and call them "barbarians" because of their enforcing the burqa on women... They brand Islam "barbaric" because of the Sharia, that is, the lapidation of adultery women, the chopping off the hands of thieves, etc. Now, your support of torture is all right with me SO LONG AS you don't wrap yourself in the mantle of moral, ethical superiority, SO LONG AS you stop claiming the moral high ground! So, Americans supportive of torture should admit that, morally speaking, their country is on a level playing field with its alleged "barbaric foes". Hence, this is no longer a clash of the civilized west vs the barbaric east --it's merely the clash between two barbarities... It's a struggle between two arbitrary sets of worldview... It's a clash between Judeo-Protestant barbarity and Muslim/Arab barbarity. It's no longer Good vs Evil, it's one Evil vs another Evil.... Gus () Excerpted from: Message 20404731