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Politics : Politics for Pros- moderated -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Mary Cluney who wrote (61038)	8/17/2004 9:48:15 AM
From: Oral Roberts	Respond to of 793755

What is important here is not what Odell saw, but what he didn't see. You of course realize that all of these boats were within yards of each other at this point? None of the boats had bullet holes and none of the other boats felt that they were under fire from the shoreline. How is it that Kerry's boat, which also didn't have any bullet holes in need of repair was the only one taking fire in the midst of 5 other boats?

To: Mary Cluney who wrote (61038)	8/17/2004 11:07:07 AM
From: unclewest	Respond to of 793755

If John Kerry did not pull Rasman out of the water and they made all this up, I will agree that John Kerry is not fit to be President. It might help to understand a bit about the award system...because the Bronze Star with "V" device is what you are questioning. The V stands for Valor...meaning heroism. I am looking at a BS "V" certificate (Dated 12 June 1969) right now and quote, "The Bronze Star Medal" followed by name, SSAN, Branch, etc. "For Heroism In Ground Combat" If there was no enemy shooting, as the all the swiftees say, there was no heroism in ground combat, and the award is inappropriate. So what is appropriate? There are two other military awards available for saving a life when not in combat. The most common would be a Commendation Medal. The second is the Soldier's Medal. The Soldier's Medal is awarded for placing your own life at risk to save another, but not in combat. An example would be rescuing crewmen from a downed and smoking aircraft. After reading everything available about this situation, I would not have recommended Kerry for anything. There was no combat, so the Bronze Star was inappropriate. There was no risk to Kerry, so the Soldier's Medal is inappropriate. Kerry's initial reaction was to break formation and flee, so no commendation should be considered. What Kerry deserves is a good butt chewing for not following his units SOPs for ambush drills. The boats stay close together so they can support and protect each other with interlocking machine gun fire. Kerry ran, so somebody had an exposed flank. Each Swift boat has radios. Somebody had to give the command to cease fire and explain there was no incoming. Kerry had to hear that. Kerry took his boat and men off the battlefield initially and returned only after he realized there was no enemy fire. If in fact there were enemy soldiers firing, it is quite likely Kerry would have faced charges for cowardice. unclewest

To: Mary Cluney who wrote (61038)	8/17/2004 11:16:47 AM
From: Ann Corrigan	Respond to of 793755

Rassman was underwater & therefore could not observe Kerry's boat or the source of gunfire. In fact Rassman stated that he deliberately swam to river bottom for safety. He heard the gunfire but assumed it was from VietCong and as the other crewmen stated, they sprayed both sides of riverbank IN CASE there were VietCong. When it became obvious there wasn't any enemy fire, the Swiftboats ceased fire AND Kerry returned to the scene. Hopefully there are still resourceful investigative reporters who are digging up as many facts as possible on these events. According to John O'Neill, the actual medal documents themselves will provide proof that Kerry is unfit for command of the American people. He added that one of Kerry's medals is the ONLY one of that particular category to be awarded in Vietnam that did not have all the required documentation. Let's hope somone is fervently seeking the truth before it's too late.

To: Mary Cluney who wrote (61038)	8/17/2004 11:17:20 AM
From: Ann Corrigan	Respond to of 793755

Rassman was underwater & therefore could not observe Kerry's boat or the source of gunfire. In fact Rassman stated that he deliberately swam to river bottom for safety. He heard the gunfire but assumed it was from VietCong and as the other crewmen stated, they sprayed both sides of riverbank IN CASE there were VietCong. When it became obvious there wasn't any enemy fire, the Swiftboats ceased fire AND Kerry returned to the scene. Hopefully there are still resourceful investigative reporters who are digging up as many facts as possible on these events. According to John O'Neill, the actual medal documents themselves will provide proof that Kerry is unfit for command of the American people. He added that one of Kerry's medals is the ONLY one of that particular category to be awarded in Vietnam that did not have all the required documentation. Let's hope someone is fervently seeking the truth before it's too late.

To: Mary Cluney who wrote (61038)	8/17/2004 11:38:03 AM
From: haqihana	Respond to of 793755

MC, At the time Kerry, supposedly, saved Rassman's life, there was no enemy fire, so there was no danger to either Kerry, or Rassman. All Navy personnel are required to be able to swim, so there should have been no danger of drowning, so there was no valor in what Kerry did, which made his receipt of the medal, a farce.

To: Mary Cluney who wrote (61038)	8/17/2004 2:32:25 PM
From: LindyBill	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 793755

Is Odell saying that Rassman was not in the water and John Kerry did not save his life? Did he see that himself? Is that what he is claiming? No one disputes that Kerry pulled Rassman out of the water. He fell off the boat. The contention is that there was no enemy fire at the time. The other boats were busy saving the boat that hit a mine, and Kerry took off, then came back and picked up Rassman. No big deal, and certainly not worth a medal. That is the contention. Several of the crew on the other boats testified to this.