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To: Pogeu Mahone who wrote (52727)8/27/2004 2:37:35 PM
From: LLCF  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 74559
 
Yep, the healthcare system will continue to collapse as the health of the general population continues to do the same. If the ass had the function of the liver we'd be getting much healthier!

On the bright side there is a lot of research being done to help some of Oriental medicine become "scientific" so it can be accepted in the West... still the general message is probably not going to be liked much: Get off yer ass and do some real work.

DAK



To: Pogeu Mahone who wrote (52727)8/27/2004 5:47:43 PM
From: Maurice Winn  Respond to of 74559
 
Cancer treatments cost something like NZ$20,000 and added costs of care and doctor services of about NZ$20,000 [in New Zealand] before the person dies. Some would be more expensive. Suppose it's as high as NZ$100,000.

Smokers are about 25% of the population and they for the most part are in the bottom 25% of the socioeconomic pile, where people don't have sickness insurance [they don't insure your health, they bet on our sickness = which is weird, in that we bet that we will get sick and they bet that we won't and we pay them a premium to take the bet, yet we are in charge of our health and they are not = what a crazy bet].

So, smokers get lung cancer, heart disease and things and start dying. They cost at most about $100,000 on the way out, but a lot just keel over with a heart attack and cost nothing except cartage to a funeral. A lot cost a lot less. There's an attempt at surgery, a few treatments of outpatient chemo, a few weeks in hospital as things are tried then it's into the hospice or care at home. Then they die aged 60. Just when they would have been thinking about collecting a pension.

If they were healthy, or at least no more sickly than the rest of the fairly unhealthy mass of humanity, they'd live until 80. Another 20 years of collecting a pension, though NZ has raised the age to 65 now [it used to be 60 but the money was running out].

At $13,000 a year which is the current superannuation sorted.org.nz for a single person living alone, and $20,000 a year for a couple, over 20 years, that's $260,000, which is a lot more than the cost of the treatment now.

Also, when they get to 80, they still get cancer and still get the same treatment, but probably need more care so the total paid is huge. All the retirement years for $260,000 and then, the $100,000 in end of life treatment and care.

Meanwhile, back in the earlier years, the person is paying huge taxes on smokes, being about $8 a packet in New Zealand [when GST, shopkeeper's taxes, duties and other imposts are counted]. Say somebody smokes 10 a day for about 200 packs a year, that's $1,600 a year, for 40 years = $64,000 which in net present value terms is a HUGE amount of money after 40 years of compounding returns.

So, at age 65, when the smoker dies, after paying income taxes for a lifetime, they've also paid $200,000 in ciggie taxes. They get a bit of treatment, maybe, then die. Saving the government another fortune in superannuation. If they have sickness insurance, they've also paid big for premiums for decades. But they probably don't take that bet as the premiums are too high.

If they stayed healthy, they would save $200,000 in net present value on their smokes buys. They'd retire earlier, using their savings and investments instead of blowing it on smoke. They'd collect $200,000 in pensions. Enjoy a healthy life-style. Then get the medical treatment at the end.

Having heaps, literally, of fat smokers working until they drop is great for politicians who get to spend all that money on themselves and their friends. The savings far, far exceed the costs.

I'm surprised governments aren't promoting smoking. In a way, they do, by making it so illegal it gets some cachet. Like other drugs, when they were legal and only fools and some eccentrics used them, they weren't so attractive. Coca Cola didn't sell as much back then, with the actual coca bean. Now that "coke" is illegal, it's more popular than ever. Dope is endemic. P is pandemic. It's an anti-government do-what-I-want bit of fun to be a daring drug taking hedonist. How cool is that?! Want to have some fun? Get wasted! It's illegal, daring, pleasurable and cool. All the racy people are doing it.

Legalize the lot. Leave people to choose to live or die. They'll figure it out. If they don't, bad luck for them.

Mqurice