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Politics : Bush-The Mastermind behind 9/11? -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: sea_urchin who wrote (8614)	10/21/2004 9:47:41 AM
From: Wharf Rat	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 20039

If the earth's mantle is finite, how can oil reserves in the mantle be infinite? WR

To: sea_urchin who wrote (8614)	10/22/2004 4:18:50 AM
From: GUSTAVE JAEGER	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 20039

Just as I told you...() Would Turkey split the EU and the U.S. ? By Ian Bremmer International Herald Tribune* Friday, October 22, 2004 [...] This is where Turkey comes in. The entry of Turkey into the European Union - at least a decade away by most estimates - will immediately add tens of millions of Muslims to the population of Europe. And the European Union will then border Iran, Iraq and Syria. What effect does this have on Europe's relationship with Washington? Long-term, Turkey's inclusion in the EU causes real trouble for the United States, because it makes a permanent rift between Europe and the United States, along the lines seen recently over Iraq (where Turkey's position was already closer to Paris and Berlin than to Washington), much more likely. The addition of Turkey's armed forces makes a common European defense more feasible - which makes NATO less necessary. While Turkey might bring its traditionally strong relationship with Israel into the EU, it is more likely that a newly self-confident European Turkey will loosen its bonds with both Israel and America (*). The addition of Turkey's Muslim population - already over 70 million - to the rest of Europe's Muslims will swing Europe further from America than ever on conflicts in the Middle East. George W. Bush, like his recent White House predecessors, has consistently promoted Turkey's entry into the EU - and been scolded by many Europeans for interference in European politics as a result. Given the likely effect on U.S.-European relations, Washington's support for Turkey's entry no longer makes sense. On the other hand, perhaps President Bush understands Europe better than most think. Maybe he figures a Bush endorsement of Turkey's entry is the best way to keep Turkey out. iht.com () You heard it here first: Message 20285775 (**) Message 20213160 Message 20289293

To: sea_urchin who wrote (8614)	10/22/2004 4:38:06 AM
From: GUSTAVE JAEGER	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 20039

Footnote to my previous post.... Hopefully, there's still a ray of hope for the US and Israel as regards the EU's fateful admission of Turkey: French former Prime Minister Laurent Fabius and others hostile to Turkish accession said the EU should make Turkey a partner rather than a full member. ‘‘Turkey is not in Europe,’’ said Fabius, a Socialist. ‘‘Never have negotiations opened without finishing with a ’Yes.’ That means it’s a delusion when we are told today, ’Don’t worry. It’s only the start of negotiations, we’ll see in 10 years or in 15 years.’’’ iht.com Former French PM Laurent Fabius belongs to Europe's largest Jewish community --the French one. Expectedly, he roots for the interests of Israel and the US --and against Europe's-- in opposing both the EU draft constitution and Turkey's bid to join the EU.... Actually, it seems that all the French Jewry has been summoned to wreck Turkey's EU bid --here's what another French Jew has to say about the issue: Europe is not ready to swallow Turkey By Dominique Moisi International Herald Tribune Friday, October 22, 2004 iht.com L'Europe et la légitimité d'Israël, par Dominique Moisi LE MONDE \| 01.03.04 Au moment où les drapeaux bleu et blanc d'Israël se mêlaient aux drapeaux tricolores, le long des Champs-Élysées, à l'occasion de la visite d'État du président Moshe Katsav, la semaine dernière, une conversation me revenait en mémoire. C'était, il y a quelques années, dans les couloirs de la Conférence annuelle des ambassadeurs, à Paris, dans le cadre d'une de ces conversations mi-sérieuses, mi-plaisantes, comme il est de coutume en de telles circonstances. La question posée était la suivante : à terme, qu'était-il préférable pour l'Europe ? Intégrer l'État d'Israël et, pour faire bonne mesure, le futur État Palestinien, dans l'Union européenne, comme membres à part entière, ou sous une forme d'association spécifique, ou bien réintégrer les juifs d'Israël en les considérant individuellement comme ce qu'ils étaient dans leur grande majorité, des Européens ? Un des ambassadeurs participant à cet échange était absolument catégorique. Pour lui, compte tenu de sa situation démographique et de sa compétition technologique et scientifique avec les États-Unis, il était bien préférable pour l'Europe "qu'elle retrouve ses juifs". N'étaient-ils pas plus assimilables, compétents - en d'autres termes civilisés - que tous ceux qui pouvaient se présenter aux frontières de l'Europe sans éducation et sans préparation à la modernité ! [...] franceradicale.org