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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: Michael Watkins who wrote (151309)11/8/2004 10:11:36 PM
From: Keith Feral  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 281500
 
What about an example of domestic terrorism against their own police force? Do you consider militants dragging 15 Iraqi policemen out of the station and executing them an act of terrorism? Try not to drag the US into this situation.



To: Michael Watkins who wrote (151309)11/8/2004 10:17:17 PM
From: jlallen  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 281500
 
Last I checked the war in Iraq was indeed "illegal".

Incorrect.....better check again....

J.



To: Michael Watkins who wrote (151309)11/9/2004 10:23:35 PM
From: TimF  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 281500
 
Last I checked the war in Iraq was indeed "illegal".

Then you didn't check very well.

The war most certainly is being driven for ideological and political reasons - the neocons even admit this.

That part of the reason but not all of it.

It may not "feel" like terrorism to us, safe behind our TV sets

Because it isn't.

Also missing from your definition. Terrorism usually refers to the targeting of non-combatants/civilians. By that definition the attack on the Pentagon might not be considered terrorism event though it "feels" like that to us.

Tim



To: Michael Watkins who wrote (151309)11/10/2004 6:55:39 AM
From: Neocon  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 281500
 
Experts divided over war legality

PAUL GALLAGHER

WOULD a US-led invasion of Iraq be illegal under international law? The United States has indicated it is willing to wage war on Saddam Hussein without the authorisation of the United Nations Security Council, and Tony Blair seems prepared to commit British troops to action on the same basis.

With the prospect of a second resolution authorising force fading fast, diplomats in London and Washington have claimed a military strike is already justified under the terms of UN resolution 1441.

There has also been suggestions that the Security Council can be bypassed if a permanent member casts an "unreasonable veto" blocking military action.

The Scotsman asked four experts on law and international relations for their assessment of the legal position. This is what they said:

Akos Toth, Emeritus Professor of European Law, University of Strathclyde, Glasgow: "Military action by Britain and the US is legal under the terms of Article 42, which defines what action the Security Council can take. But if they press for a second resolution and it is vetoed then military action may no longer be legal.

"My position is really very simple. The main dispute centres on the use of the words in resolution 1441 which uses the term, ‘serious consequences’ which follow if Iraq does not comply with the resolution. The argument is that ‘serious consequences’ does not imply the use of armed force.

"I contend that the UN charter does not use the term ‘serious consequences’ but it defines in precise terms what measures the Security Council can take in Article 42. This talks about: ‘enforcement action by air, sea, or land forces, including demonstrations, blockade and other operations by air, sea or land forces of the members of the United Nations’.

"I contend military action is legal and there is no need for a second resolution.

"The Prime Minister, Tony Blair, is only pressing for a second resolution for political reasons."

David Armstrong , a professor of international relations at Exeter University: "It is not as clear as many people may think and it could be argued both ways. The strongest case is probably against the legality of any invasion, but if it came to court - which it won’t - it is not a case that would be easily decided.

"There are only two ways that war can be justified legally - one is self-defence, the other is through a Security Council resolution. But there have actually been quite a lot of Security Council resolutions on Iraq and if you add them together, or even if you only look at 1441, you could assume legitimacy because Iraq is still in non-compliance with the various objections placed on it.

"You really could argue it both ways. You need a majority including all the five permanent members of the Security Council, but there are legitimate questions marks over the operation of international law.

"The Security Council gives an action of force legitimacy, but there are a number of questions you could ask about the Security Council, such as the gaining of votes from members who are paid in a certain way. That is a form of justice which we have not tolerated in this country for more than 150 years.

"The broader issue is whether the US is prepared to act within an international framework. There are all kinds of previous resolutions that have been set with regard to Iraq and even 1441 says that Iraq has been repeatedly warned and will face serious consequences.

"A series of moral issues must be resolved, but the legal situation is more ambiguous."

Alan Boyle, a professor of public international law at the University of Edinburgh: "It is as plain as a pikestaff that any invasion of Iraq without a further Security Council resolution would be illegal. The UN charter is quite clear that states should settle their differences peacefully, and the use of force is prohibited except in two circumstances.

"They are in cases of self defence and in cases where authority has been granted by the UN Security Council.

"There is no evidence Iraq is proposing to attack anyone at the moment, so self-defence can be ruled out. And it is perfectly obvious to me that the UN Security Council does not authorise the use of force. Resolution 1441 does not authorise force - the term ‘serious consequences’ is not a euphemism for war and it does not authorise individual states to invade Iraq.

"The usual terminology for military action is ‘using all necessary means’ and when 1441 was being debated, it was made clear that many nations voted for it on the basis it did not include those words.

"If the US and Britain attack Iraq, it could amount to a crime of waging aggressive war under the Nuremberg principles and in theory, Tony Blair could face charges at the International Criminal Court, although George Bush could not because the US is not party to the statutes of the ICC. No international lawyer of any competence at all could possibly give the government advice that invading Iraq without a further resolution would be lawful."

William Wallace, a Lib Dem peer and professor of international relations at the London School of Economics: "International law is quite a fuzzy subject and a skilled lawyer can often argue both sides of any case. If an action is blocked by the UN but still has support among the majority of people in democratic countries, then it might have an ‘observed legitimacy’, even if it does not have legality.

The Kosovo intervention went ahead without Security Council approval, but it made sense to most of the US’s key allies. It is less clear this time. The problem with the Bush administration is their failure to justify what they are doing outside the US, and that is damaging their case.

"Bush has failed to persuade the doubters. His officials are making fewer trips abroad to explain their case than at any time since the Roosevelt era. A veto in the UN would not matter too much, but the key point of this situation is that the way in which the US has approached the Iraq problem has lost the sympathy of most of its allies. It is too late now for the US to secure observed legitimacy."

thescotsman.scotsman.com



To: Michael Watkins who wrote (151309)11/10/2004 7:03:59 AM
From: Neocon1 Recommendation  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 281500
 
Yes, this war is legal
March 19 2003
By Greg Hunt

Military conflict in Iraq will have the full legitimacy of international law. I make this statement as someone who is a multilateralist by nature. I believe in international law and was a strong advocate for Australian participation in the International Criminal Court. I have worked for the United Nations in Geneva chronicling the abuses that occurred during the Bosnian conflict and I was Australia's chief electoral observer in Cambodia during the 1998 elections.

In each case I saw the tragic human consequences of a failure to uphold international law and the decisions of the UN. Now, in Iraq, we are witness to the same violation of international law and Security Council decisions.

There are three requirements if Security Council members the United States, Britain and Spain are to lead an international coalition to enforce the council's resolutions on Iraq.

First, there must be a clear and unequivocal duty on Iraq to comply with council resolutions. Second, there must be a clear and unequivocal breach of that duty. Third, there must be a legitimate and continuing authority for enforcing those actions. All are present.

The first element, Iraq's duty to comply with international law, has been reaffirmed through 17 Security Council resolutions over 12 years. This duty began with resolution 678 of November 29, 1990, which authorised use of "all necessary means" to force Iraq to quit Kuwait and importantly "to restore international peace and security in the area".

After operation Desert Storm forced Iraq from Kuwait, the Security Council authorised a ceasefire under resolution 687 on April 3, 1991. The ceasefire was conditional on Iraq destroying or removing all its chemical and biological weapons. This condition was reaffirmed in resolution 1441 of November 8, 2002.

Critically, resolution 1441 declares Iraq "in material breach" of its obligations, offers "one final opportunity" to comply fully - not partially - and threatens "serious consequences" if it continued to violate its obligations. The term "serious consequences" is the same enforcement provision that underpinned Desert Storm.

So, Iraq's duty to disarm is continuing and absolute.

The second element is the question of breach. Again, the Security Council has repeatedly found Iraq in breach of its obligations to disarm and has authorised the use of force on many occasions.

Since November, UN chief weapons inspector Hans Blix has noted some co-operation, but he has repeatedly affirmed that Iraq has chemical and biological stores, missing anthrax and VX nerve gas supplies, and active development programs. So the Security Council itself has concluded that Iraq remains in fundamental breach of its obligations.

This breach has been compounded by Saddam Hussein's clear and unchallenged support for at least three active terrorist groups: the Abu Nidal Organisation, the Mujahideen e-Kharq and the PLF.

The third and most difficult question is who can legitimately enforce resolution 1441. Previous enforcement has followed a declaration of material breach, but has not specified the means. On all occasions it has been led by the US acting in accordance with Security Council resolutions.

In this particular case it has been asserted there may be duty and material breach but that US-led action would be unilateral and therefore illegitimate. This is false. In February, US Under-Secretary of State Marc Grossman identified 26 countries that had already given access, basing and over-flight rights for action against Iraq. A further 18 had given contingent approval for such co-operation. So a minimum of 44 countries have provisionally agreed to participate in an enforcement operation.

Of course, it would be preferable to have a further resolution for purposes of unanimity. Such a resolution would be the best way of avoiding conflict. But Australia, Britain, Spain and the US have exhausted every avenue to achieve the moral support of an 18th resolution. However, France, while calling for UN solidarity, has at the same time categorically ruled out any further resolution authorising force. It has blocked the very avenue down which it wants the world to travel.

Make no mistake though, full authority to enforce resolution 1441 already exists.

Saddam has been under an express UN Security Council duty for more than a decade to terminate his chemical and biological programs. He has been found to be in material breach of that duty by maintaining an active chemical and biological weapons program. Moreover, his regime's active support for terrorism remains in breach of Security Council demands.

Above all else, moral legitimacy is stripped away by the fact that Saddam runs perhaps the most oppressive remaining regime in the world.

In all those circumstances, there is clear legitimacy for enforcement of Security Council resolutions by a coalition comprising more than 40 countries and that is led by three members of the Security Council.

Greg Hunt is the Liberal member for the federal seat of Flinders.
He was a senior fellow at the Centre for Comparative Constitutional Law at Melbourne University and taught international human rights law at Yale University

theage.com.au



To: Michael Watkins who wrote (151309)11/10/2004 7:12:33 AM
From: Neocon  Respond to of 281500
 
from the March 21, 2003 edition

As attack on Iraq begins, question remains: Is it legal?

The White House and British legal authorities say the war is justified under UN Resolution 1441.

By Peter Ford | Staff writer of The Christian Science Monitor

AMMAN, JORDAN – Of all the international criticisms of the war that broke out Thursday in Iraq, none cut more deeply into America's image of itself than the argument that the US-led attack is illegal.
International-law experts are divided on whether Washington has the right to invade Iraq in the absence of a UN Security Council resolution specifically authorizing such an assault.


But most agree that President Bush cannot justify the war with his new doctrine of preemptive military action to forestall the threat that he says Saddam Hussein poses. Preemptive force "is extremely dangerous and flat-out illegal," says Jordan Paust, professor of international law at the University of Houston. "Implying a right to take out a regime that threatens us - that is quite threatening to the international legal order."

French President Jacques Chirac said Tuesday he had opposed the war "in the name of the primacy of the law," and slammed the US administration for preferring "the use of force over compliance with the law." UN Secretary-General Kofi Annan also warned last week that war on Iraq without a new resolution endorsing it "will not be in conformity with the (UN) Charter," a cornerstone of international law.

But British Foreign Minister Jack Straw insisted yesterday that "every single thing we are doing is in compliance with (UN Security Council) Resolution 1441," which last November threatened President Hussein with "serious consequences" if he did not take a last chance to give up his weapons of mass destruction. "We are putting that resolution into effect, not avoiding it," he added.

White House counsel Alberto Gonzales and British legal authorities have concluded that UN Security Council Resolution 1441 is all the legal authority Washington needs for the war.

France and Russia have since said they did not intend the threat of "serious consequences" to mean armed force without a second resolution. When the Security Council has threatened war in the past, it has always talked of "all necessary means" as a hallowed euphemism.

Washington and London, however, argue that Resolution 1441 harked back in its preamble to Resolution 678, passed in 1990, authorizing the use of force to expel Iraqi troops from Kuwait "and to restore international peace and security in the area." That authority, British Attorney General Lord Goldsmith told Parliament this week, has been revived by Iraq's failure to observe the terms of the Gulf War ceasefire, which included a pledge to hand over all chemical, biological, and nuclear weapons within 90 days.

That reasoning is questionable, argued opposition Liberal Democratic legal affairs spokesman Lord Goodhart on BBC radio. Resolution 687, which ended the last Gulf War, "specifically authorized the use of sanctions (but) I certainly don't believe that authorizes armed intervention without a second resolution," he said.

At a more fundamental level, however, critics charge that the war breaches Article 51 of the UN Charter, which asserts "the inherent right of individual or collective self defense if an armed attack occurs against a member of the United Nations." Otherwise the use of force requires UN Security Council approval.

Iraq has not attacked the US, and "I don't think America is coming under armed attack from Iraq," Arab League Secretary-General Amr Moussa said Wednesday. "I don't think anyone could say that the armed action they (the Americans) are going to take is within the frame of the UN Charter."

President Bush seemed to stretch the interpretation of Article 51 in his speech to the nation Monday, saying that the US "has the sovereign authority to use force in assuring its own national security. "Terrorists and terror states do not reveal these threats with fair notice, in formal declarations; and responding to such enemies only after they have struck first is not self-defense, it is suicide," the president added.

International law, and the way the UN Charter is interpreted, has evolved over the years. The 1999 intervention in Kosovo, for example, was seen as legitimate by Western powers - though it had no Security Council backing - because it was cast as a humanitarian intervention.

Interpreting Article 51 to suit a changed world, argues Martti Koskenniemi, an international-law professor at the University of Helsinki, Washington could justify a preemptive strike "if it is shown that the Iraqi leadership ... is in possession of some sort of weapon, plus a means to get it to the United States, plus actually imminently intending to do that. But otherwise not."

Though US officials have argued that Hussein has ties to terrorist organizations that he might supply with weapons of mass destruction, Secretary of State Colin Powell's attempts to convince his UN colleagues of this last month were greeted with widespread skepticism.

The war could be legitimized - even though it is illegal - "if we find all the things that we say we are going to find" such as chemical and biological weapons, argues Anne Marie Slaughter, dean of the Woodrow Wilson School of Public and International affairs at Princeton University. "But it is going to require that the US and Britain truly prove their case," she adds.

At the same time, she says, the past six months of diplomatic wrangling over Iraq show paradoxically that "the regime [of international law] regarding the use of force has never been stronger than it is right now." Though Britain and the US eventually dropped their effort to get a second resolution passed, the fact that they tried so hard, and that Mr. Bush justified military action in terms of earlier UN resolutions when he spoke to the American people on Monday, show that the Security Council has become more than the talking shop of the cold war years, Professor Slaughter says. "Even now, all sides are focusing on the UN. We've made it pretty clear that the UN is indispensable [to] what happens in the future in Iraq."


csmonitor.com



To: Michael Watkins who wrote (151309)11/10/2004 7:16:51 AM
From: Neocon1 Recommendation  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 281500
 
The whole thing turns on whether the ongoing resolutions are part of the first Gulf war. Hostilities were broken under certain conditions. Those conditions were not met. Hostilities therefore resumed. No further authorization of force was necessary. There is nothing explicit in the charter or protocols of the United Nation to contradict this.