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Politics : Formerly About Advanced Micro Devices -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: Road Walker who wrote (212548)12/2/2004 8:04:03 PM
From: Alighieri  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 1573921
 
Falluja 'a horror' after U.S.-led offensive
Long road ahead for residents of shattered city

From CNN Producer Arwa Damon
Wednesday, December 1, 2004 Posted: 0738 GMT (1538 HKT)

FALLUJA, Iraq (CNN) -- Mahmoud Zubari and his family fled their home in Falluja after it was bombed and his 13-year-old son was killed.

Zubari, his wife and their remaining eight children, ages 2 to 16, spent the next 20 days in the house of a friend while the U.S.-led onslaught to drive out insurgents in the city got under way.

Last week, the family was picked up by the Iraqi Red Crescent, under Marine escort, and taken to the humanitarian group's compound in the city. Tuesday, the family returned to the home they took sanctuary in.

"All the wealth will not bring back my son, but now I have to think of the future for the rest of my children," said Zubari's wife, Selma. "What will become of us?"

That is a sentiment shared by many residents of the shattered city, which remains under curfew and where pockets of fighting continue to rage. Some homes in the city have begun posting signs in both Arabic and English that read, "Family inside."

The Red Crescent compound houses more than 100 residents who became stranded there after a 24-hour curfew was put back in place last week by U.S. forces in eastern Falluja. Marine commanders had previously implemented a curfew between 3 p.m. and 7 a.m.

Fuad Kubaysi, one of those staying at the Red Crescent compound, said, "What has happened to Falluja is a horror beyond anything imaginable. We don't want it anymore. Let them have it. Let whomever wants it have it. We cannot ever call this city home again."

Red Crescent volunteer Sabri Abd Almalek said the restrictions imposed by the Marines are hindering their humanitarian efforts to bring relief to families throughout the city.

"We are stuck here," he said. "We came here to help the people, treat the sick, and they won't let us leave -- only when we have permission."

The first Red Crescent convoy arrived in the city Friday and began distributing food and medical supplies. But the round-the-clock curfew has sharply limited those efforts.

Marine Col. Craig Tucker, the commanding officer of Regimental Combat Team 7, said the curfew was reimposed because of sporadic fighting throughout the eastern sector of the city and continued security concerns.
start quoteWhat has happened to Falluja is a horror beyond anything imaginable ... We cannot ever call this city home again.end quote
-- Fuad Kubaysi, Falluja resident


The Red Crescent is allowed to work with Marine escort. Marines are escorting and helping the group identify families in need and provide them with food, water and medical supplies. Women and children who want to leave the city are escorted out. Military-age men have to be screened before they are escorted home or out of the city.

Lt. Col. Michael Ramos, a battalion commander with the combat team in charge of northeastern Falluja, said Marines have so far identified 20 families in his sector, but there may be up to 50. He said families and men who passed the screening and wanted to return to their homes in the city would have their homes first searched for weapons and possible insurgents who might have taken sanctuary in them. The homes would then be marked for food and water distribution.

As for Zubari, he has been told he will receive compensation for his home being destroyed. In addition to losing his 13-year-old son, he said, his brother was killed -- and according to men in the neighborhood, he was buried in the garden of a nearby house.

CNN's Jane Arraf contributed to this report.



To: Road Walker who wrote (212548)12/3/2004 10:17:39 AM
From: RetiredNow  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 1573921
 
First off, read the SI policy. I wouldn't want you getting kicked off the thread for language. We need your opinion on this thread, so we can have a lively debate.
...................
I think alot about whether we should be the cop of the world or not. Fundamentally, I don't like the idea. However, I keep coming back to the conclusion that we have no choice. We are the number 1 target for the Muslims. Therefore, we have to fight back. It pains me to see how young those kids are that fight for this country. It pains me to see how brave they are. I bet you didn't know that a recent poll among our soldiers showed that 80% of those who were wounded in Iraq, would re-enlist to go back if they could. They understand what they are fighting for even if you do not.

I think you have clearly stated that it is irresponsible for us to be in Iraq. You find it morally objectionable and I respect that. However, I find it morally objectionable and irresponsible for us not to fight these Muslim nihilists. If we back off for one second, then they will use all their resources to hit us here in the U.S. If they succeed in doing that, then your 11,000 wounded figure could be in the hundreds of thousands, but they wouldn't be wounded, they'd be dead.

It might have escaped you that Osama recently secured the Muslim community's permission to strike the U.S. with WMD. As long as we give him and his ilk breathing room, they will work to put those plans into place. With sponsors of their terror like Iran or North Korea, who possess nukes or soon will, it is a virtual certainty that they will succeed in striking us one day.

I don't think you get it, John. We are sitting ducks here in the U.S. and we have no choice but to fight a VERY aggressive war to kill these nihilists before they kills hundreds of thousands of us right here in your backyard.

I find it morally reprehensible that you and others like you refuse to take your rose colored glasses off and see the threat standing right before your eyes. That refusal to face reality and fight these Muslims aggressively could very will cost hundreds of thousands of American lives, if you were to get your way.



To: Road Walker who wrote (212548)12/3/2004 7:23:33 PM
From: TimF  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 1573921
 
I don't think that we should generally be the world's police force either. Maybe sometimes in specific situations we should, and other times there may be no other good choice.

Look at the dollar... we're approaching third world status.

That's pretty extreme hyperbole.

we are losing one war, and if some SOB happens to attack us somewhere else we are in deep shit. We can't respond.

Neither statement is true.

But what really pisses me off is the way you folks don't care about the human damage. >11,000 casualties on our side, 50K to 100K on their side.

You misunderstand the feelings of most supporters of the war if you think they don't care about casualties on our side or among Iraqi civilians.


All this, for nothing. Except oil, or a Bush family vendetta.


That is not true.


You are a piece of shit for supporting this war


To the extent that you can influence anyone's opinion (and I recognize that in a forum like this that extent is usually small) you might have more success if you keep the conversation civil.

Tim



To: Road Walker who wrote (212548)12/3/2004 7:54:12 PM
From: tejek  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 1573921
 
Democrats deliver $730k for statewide recount in governor's race

Dino camp outraged


04:24 PM PST on Friday, December 3, 2004
KING5.com Staff and Wire Reports

OLYMPIA, Wash. - Less than a day after Democrat Christine Gregoire vowed to concede the race for governor unless Democrats come up with enough money for a full rather than partial vote recount, her party said it had the money to do so.

"We're going to count every vote in every county whether it's a Gregoire County or a Rossi County," chairman of the state Democratic Party Paul Berendt said at a 2 p.m. news conference also attended by current Gov. Gary Locke.

Berendt said the state party wrote a $730,000 check as a down payment on a hand recount. Although the party got a big boost with a $250,000 contribution from former presidential candidate John Kerry, Berendt said contributions from the party faithful put the party over the top.

Much of that money came in after an appeal was made by Vermont Gov. and former presidential contender Howard Dean.

Locke said the recount was needed because of the margin between the two candidates -- 42 votes of nearly 3 million cast -- and because even the accuracy of vote counting machines left the result of the race in question.

"Even at a 99.9 percent of accuracy, that's a swing of a potential 3,000 votes. Even if the machines are 99.99 percent accurate, that's a swing of 300 votes," Locke said.

Democrats are also heading straight to the state Supreme Court to seek a ruling that all ballots be treated the same from county to county.

He referred to hundreds of questioned ballots, including provisional ballots and absentee votes, that were rejected by some counties.

"We will not be bullied by Bush White House lawyers or irresponsible threats from Senator Rossi's campaign," Berendt added.

The party is seeking to recount all 2.9 million votes cast for governor on Nov. 2 - not just votes in selected counties.

Secretary of State Sam Reed is expected to order the new count on Monday and most counties are expected to begin the laborious job Wednesday. Reed says the count should be completed by Dec. 23 unless there are legal challenges.

Republicans were outraged at the prospect of a third vote count and a legal battle.

"It sounds like they want to make Florida look like a tea party," complained Mary Lane, a Rossi spokeswoman. "It's outrageous, it's dangerous and it shows how little Christine Gregoire cares about the Democratic process. She will do virtually anything to try to win.

"We are not going to let this stand. We will not let her try to steal this election. Dino has won this election twice legitimately and Christine Gregoire is trying to overturn this election illegitimately."

Gregoire threatened to concede

On Thursday, Gregoire had said that she would concede the race to Republican Dino Rossi if her party chose to ask that only some counties or precincts to counted..

“If they can’t raise enough money to do a statewide recount manual recount, then I’m not interested in a recount at all,” said Gregoire.

"I want the voters to feel good about the results because all of the votes have been counted in every part of the state and they have confidence that the next governor is the dually elected governor," Gregoire said.

In a sternly worded public statement to her party, Gregoire told party leaders on Thursday to stop talking about a partial recount of an election that ended with her 42 votes behind Republican Dino Rossi.

“My request of the state Democratic Party is simple: Count the entire state or don’t count at all,” she said in the statement released by her campaign office. “Counting every vote is the only right thing to do.”

In an AP interview later, she was even stronger, “I’m saying that at 5 o’clock (Friday), if they haven’t called for a statewide recount, I’m done.”

Gregoire, 57, the three-term attorney general, trailed Rossi, 45, a former state Senate power, by just 42 votes after a machine recount was certified last week. Rossi won the initial vote count by 261 ballots, a margin so close it triggered the mandatory machine recount.

Rossi and the Republican Party have urged Gregoire to concede.

The party requesting a further hand recount must pay for it, at roughly 25 cents per ballot.

The Democrats had been scrambling to come up with more than $1 million to pay for the full manual recount.

Berendt said Friday that he expected the recount to cost upwards of $1.2 million to $1.4 million.

By late Thursday they had about $650,000 of the approximately $750,000 deposit that would be required by the state’s 5 p.m. Friday deadline, said Kirstin Brost, state Democratic Party spokeswoman.

The fund-raising drive got a big boost when the party’s unsuccessful presidential candidate, Sen. John Kerry, donated $250,000 of his leftover campaign funds. The Democratic National Committee and other donor groups are helping.

As of Thursday morning, the state party had received $135,000 in online contributions, with more than 10,000 contributors, Brost said.

In addition to paying for the hand recount, the party faces legal bills and staff costs, driving the total to more than $1 million, she said.

Gregoire and her party have been under pressure to count the full state, rather than “cherry pick” selected counties to try to overturn the election. Outgoing Gov. Gary Locke and other elected officials, as well as many newspaper editorial pages, have urged the party to count all 6,686 precincts.



“I know it would be cheaper for the party to do a limited hand recount,” Gregoire said. “And I know it would be possible to just count a few counties and put me in the lead.

“That doesn’t work for the voters of our state. From the beginning, this has been about getting all the votes counted so we can know for sure who won the governor’s race.”

She added, “It is imperative that we send the message, ‘Every vote, everywhere, must be counted.’ No games.”

The two parties exchanged testy comments about the Democrats’ letter to Secretary of State Sam Reed demanding a fresh review of ballots that were previously rejected by canvassing boards.

Attorney David Burman said hundreds of provisional ballots and more than 1,500 absentee ballots were rejected in King County alone and that counties didn’t handle disputed ballots uniformly.

In the letter, state Democrats threatened legal action if every county isn’t allowed to re-examine discarded ballots, a policy used in King and other major counties but not in the majority of the state.

Former Republican Governor Dan Evans said the Democrats are trying to change the rules too late in the game.

"I think that we will see lawyers in every county, I think we will see of hassling of individual ballots just like in Florda four years ago, I think we will see challenges of almost everything," said Evans.

Republicans pointed to a line in Burman’s letter that said:

“Pre-recount litigation is an option, but we hope your office will do everything possible to keep that from becoming necessary.”

continued..............

king5.com