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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Neeka who wrote (153203)	12/3/2004 3:38:08 AM
From: cosmicforce	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

<What liberals seem to forget is that our nation was founded on the proposition that we're all equal. Uh, no it wasn't. Don't you know about poll taxes, property ownership requirements, women's suffrage and the 3/5 Compromise? It was founded so all land-owning white guys would have an equal voice. Heck, the masses weren't even trusted by the Constitutional framers to elect our president directly. Voting rights were not an enumerated power until added by amendment and even then, the Supreme Court took almost 100 years to enforce it. The truth is just a Google or AV search away... lwvabc.org

To: Neeka who wrote (153203)	12/3/2004 7:43:49 AM
From: kumar	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

<Class envy is a product of the early to mid 20th century. It went out of vogue when America won WW2 and finally, when the wall came down. It's called democracy. Some people just haven't movedon yet.> Ahem... heard of a country called India ? Go visit if u have not. u will find : - class envy still in vogue - India became a democracy well after WW2, and did not have anything to do with any wall coming down. - today, India is the world's largest democracy. The point is : "DEMOCRACY" is not the cure for all ills. BTW, My history books taught me that the "Allied Forces" won WW2, NOT "America won WW2". Care to provide credible evidence that history books were incorrect ?

To: Neeka who wrote (153203)	12/3/2004 10:22:35 AM
From: Sam	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

Only true liberals would deny them those rights based on some idealistic notion that we should all live like bees in a hive. Very undemocratic to say the least, and really, a losing proposition. No one suggests that "we should all live like bees in a hive." Least of all "liberals". There is no one liberal perspective--What I have heard in the past said of Jews, Communists, economists and others can also easily be said of "liberals"--get ten of them in a room and you'll get 30 opinions. The same is true of Christians, Moslems, and virtually every other group of any size as well, though some don't like that thought. Class envy is a product of the early to mid 20th century. It went out of vogue when America won WW2 and finally, when the wall came down. Hardly. "Class envy" and class resentment has been around for as long as there have been classes. It was, in fact, a powerful reason for the American Revolution, as many in this country felt "slighted" by the British, and, despite pride in being British citizens, felt that they were treated as second class citizens. This included people like Ben Franklin and George Washington, just to name two prominent examples. There is a reason why there is a clause in our Constitution that prohibits titles of nobility ever being issued by anyone. There were also clauses in many state constitutions to the same or even more stringent effects--several state constitutions, for example, make "putting on airs" a criminal offense, punishable by fine or even in some cases jail time. Acting "aristocratic" or "monarchical" was railed against by these early populists. I suggest you read at least Gordon Wood's book, The Radicalism of the American Revolution" before you post any more about what propositions "our nation was founded on." Just to name one not too long and fairly easily readable book. Some people just haven't movedon yet. Some people just don't know much about the past, and prefer fantasies about it to what actually happened.