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Politics : President George W. Bush - Right or Wrong? -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: RMF who wrote (263)12/12/2004 4:32:32 AM
From: Raymond Duray  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 390
 
Re: Bush is going to run up the deficit by $1 TRILLION a YEAR if he continues his excessive spending AND gets his Social Security changes!!! THAT's the guy you think is a CONSERVATIVE????

No only not conservative, but not even good at math from the point of view of protecting the public trust. Here's some bad news about privatizing Social Security in two countries, Chile and Sweden.....

<COPY>
A post from Washington Monthly: washingtonmonthly.com


SOCIAL SECURITY AROUND THE WORLD....Airy fairy theorizing is one thing, but how about some concrete data in the great Social Security privatization debate. In particular, how has Social Security privatization fared in other countries that have tried it? After all, the United States isn't the first country to think about doing this. Let's take a peek.

First there's Chile. They implemented privatization a couple of decades ago, and originally the World Bank was enthusiastic. Today, though...not so much. Greg Anrig of the Century Foundation summarizes:

* Investment accounts of retirees are much smaller than originally predicted — so low that 41 percent of those eligible to collect pensions continue to work.

* The World Bank found that half of the pension contributions of the average Chilean worker who retired in 2000 went to management fees. The brokerage firm CB Capitales...found that the average worker would have done better simply by placing their pension fund contributions in a passbook savings account.

* The transition costs of shifting to a privatized system in Chile averaged 6.1 percent of GDP in the 1980s, 4.8 percent in the 1990s, and are expected to average 4.3 percent from 1999 to 2037.

Bummer! Still, maybe that's just Chile. How about results from some nice, progressive, wealthy country instead? How about Sweden?

Sweden implemented a partial privatization back in 2001. Here's what the president of the Swedish Society of Actuaries reports:

General benefit levels have been significantly lowered, future benefits are impossible to forecast, and administrative costs have quadrupled — mostly because of the mutual fund part — to 2.0% of total benefits. (If real investment return is 3% per annum, the amount accumulated after 30 years of regular annual savings will be 22% lower if the cost factor is 2.0% instead of 0.5%.)

....Everyone in the new system is forced to speculate in mutual funds and results in the first years have been disastrous. From March 2000 until March 2003, the Swedish stock market declined by 68%. As of 31st January 2004, 84% of all accounts had lost money, despite the upturn in the market since March 2003.

Aren't you glad that President Bush wants to follow in the footsteps of glorious successes like these?



To: RMF who wrote (263)12/12/2004 8:30:35 AM
From: Lazarus_Long  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 390
 
That's what Al Gore was saying when he talked about his "Lock Box".
THAT is exactly what was initially promised with the social security funds- -that they would be kept separate from other funds. Of course, over time, things like that are forgotten or slip away in the face of some "emergency" and the boz is unlocked. The "slippery slope" at its finest. And a good reason NOT to allow the gov't not to start new programs.

The thing is...THAT means Bush's DEFICITS are ACTUALLY about $300 BILLION higher than what the CBO is currently reporting. His goofy privatization thing will add another $200 BILLION a year to his annual deficits if it goes through.
I'd have to check to see if Bush is still using the same accounting tricks. Could be.

You're saying that Bush is going to run up the deficit by $1 TRILLION a YEAR if he continues his excessive spending AND gets his Social Security changes!!!
If just adding a drug benefit to Medicare i going to be so financially disastrous, what would be the effect of Edwards' and Hillary's full national health coverage?

THAT's the guy you think is a CONSERVATIVE????
I don't, no. How big do you think it would have been had John Edwards got his nationalized medical care, though?



To: RMF who wrote (263)12/12/2004 4:19:19 PM
From: longnshort  Respond to of 390
 
They think you are too stupid

By Alan Reynolds

New York Times columnist Daniel Altman wrote about "Taxes and Consequences" after the election, fearing all prospective changes in the status quo.
His complaints about allowing young workers to put part of their Social Security tax into personal savings accounts were stupendously supercilious. He demanded to know "who would choose where workers could put their money?"
The elitism is obvious. Like other New York Times employees, Mr. Altman has a 401(k) retirement savings plan. So, who gets to choose where he puts his money? He does, of course. So, why does Mr. Altman presume other people are too stupid to make such choices? It's their money, after all.
He wondered, "What would happen if financial markets crashed?" It is considered polite to say, "There is no such thing as a stupid question." But this particular question must be an exception. He makes it sound as if retirees have to liquidate their lifelong retirement savings the day they empty their desks, and would be most eager to do so during a market crash.
But anyone who cashed-out a retirement savings plan in such an untimely way would have to pay income tax on that lump sum, often at a high rate. Prudent retirees instead avoid touching tax-deferred plans until age 70½, when they are legally required to begin taking the money out. Only academics who ask stupid questions would even think of rushing to liquidate life savings during a cyclical crash such as 1933 or October 1987, which were excellent times to buy.
The money invested in any retirement saving account goes in over many years and comes out over many years. What the stock or bond market happens to be doing during the year one begins retirement tells the retiree almost nothing about the next 10 or 20 years. The stock market rarely stays down more than three years, and then typically rebounds quickly (as in 1983 or 2003). Meanwhile, the value of bonds often rises in recessions when stocks fall (as in 2001).
Under a partly privatized Social Security system, potential retirees' incentives to tap the retirement account slowly would be similar to existing 401(k) plans. Unlike old-fashioned Social Security, there would be no artificial incentive to retire prematurely at age 62 or 66, because the longer you keep investing in your own account the more comfortably you can retire or partly retire whenever you choose.
On Dec. 1, Wall Street Journal writer Tom Lauricella chimed in with a Page One feature saying, "The Bush administration wants to incorporate elements of the 401(k) approach into Social Security." But those who have such retirement savings plans, he warned, "have made obvious mistakes in investing their money, such as putting too much money into low-yield savings accounts or betting the house on their own company's stock. Many also don't put as much money into the plans as they could, forgoing big tax savings and employers' matching contributions."
The first and last complaints are inappropriate; the one about company stock is irrelevant. Those who put "too much money into low-yield savings accounts" have a low appetite for risk, which is as legitimate a taste as any other. To presume to instruct people on how much risk they should take with their own money is no different from complaining that other people buy the wrong cars or drink the wrong wine.
This is a peculiarly ironic point to make in this case. Opponents of adding private choice to Social Security start by suggesting private retirement accounts are too risky, yet end up complaining those with 401(k) plans don't take enough risks.
The Journal writer's second complaint is that "many don't put as much money into the plans as they could, forgoing big tax savings and employers' matching contributions." That simply shows it is difficult to save, particularly for young parents.
I once advised a young father facing a budget squeeze to temporarily shrink his 401(k) contributions to the small percentage his employer matched, because the alternative was adding to his family's debts. Most of us save little until the kids are out of college. Yet 78 percent of those offered a 401(k) plan nonetheless participate as well as they can, adding more later in life when they can best afford it.
The academic complaint that few put the legal maximum into a 401(k) in any given year — $12,000 — sounds persuasive only to those with salaries larger than the middling five figures most people earn, before taxes. Those statistics count me among the stupid people who do not put the maximum into a 401(k) plan. But that is because I already have more than enough stashed away in other 403(c), Keogh and IRA accounts.
Mr. Lauricella's third complaint — "betting the house on their own company's stock" — is a red herring. In this case, his analogy with employer-sponsored 401(k) plans breaks down completely. An analogy with federal employee retirement accounts would be much better. Private accounts funded with Social Security taxes are not employer-provided plans, so employers will have no say at all in defining allowed investments. There is no chance such a federally designed system would allow investing in any one stock, much less the stock of your employer.
Mr. Altman somehow missed this distinction, too. He asks, "Would they [who chose to invest part of their Social Security taxes] have been able to invest in Enron?" Of course not. That's another startlingly stupid question.
Mr. Altman asked, "What about investing abroad?" He must have neglected to study the benefits of international diversification. Unfortunately, Congress tends to share Mr. Altman's provincial concept of risk, so it probably won't allow investing in a global stock or bond fund, but it should. For equally paternalistic reasons, the law does not allow holding short positions or "bear funds" in retirement accounts (short-term bets stocks will fall), thus making it impossible to hedge against periodic market downturns. In the name of limiting risk, such restrictions force people to take avoidable risk.
The Wall Street Journal cites a study by an employee benefit consultant claiming professionally managed 401(k) plans earned a slightly better 10-year return than the do-it-yourself variety — roughly 6.8 percent yearly for the pros and 6.4 percent for the amateurs. Since amateur investors in 401(k) plans managed to earn 6.4 percent a year from 1992 to 2002, however, they suddenly look a lot less stupid than Mr. Altman and Mr. Lauricella think. That is nearly enough to double the size of a 401(k) account every 10 years. And the professionals may well have taken bigger risks, since they weren't playing with their own money.
Once younger people get the choice to build such private accounts under Social Security, an extremely competitive market for professional advice will spring up to meet the demand because millions of employees, rather than a few bosses, will be newly empowered. But if Mr. Altman and Mr. Lauricella are still offering their arrogantly ignorant investment advice, you'll be safer sticking with a do-it-yourself approach.

Alan Reynolds is a senior fellow with the Cato Institute and a nationally syndicated columnist.