To: maceng2 who wrote (18995 ) 12/19/2004 5:29:23 PM From: mishedlo Respond to of 116555 Since the start of the year, employment measured by the survey of employers has fallen by 112,000 in the private sector, with only 115,000 extra public-sector jobs preventing a fall in total numbers in work. How the H is that rosy? I am going to repeat the section in question: ==============================================================However, this rosy picture of job market conditions was thrown into doubt by a separate official survey showing that employers have reported a sharp drop in total numbers in work. The quarterly workforce jobs survey of companies’ payrolls showed that employment tumbled by 41,000 in the third quarter. This marked the first quarterly decline since autumn 2001, in the aftermath of the September 11 terrorist attacks, and the sharpest fall since spring 1998. The workforce jobs report showed a drop of 70,000 in private sector employment, offset by 29,000 extra taxpayer-funded jobs in the nation’s burgeoning public sector. Since the start of the year, employment measured by the survey of employers has fallen by 112,000 in the private sector, with only 115,000 extra public-sector jobs preventing a fall in total numbers in work.The gloomy survey data, updated only quarterly by the Office for National Statistics (ONS), called into question the more upbeat indications from headline figures which normally command greater attention and were yesterday hailed by ministers. The claimant count of unemployment fell by 3,400 in November to a new low of 833,200.The Government’s preferred jobs market figures, based on the Labour Force Survey (LFS) of individuals, also showed unemployment down, by 29,000 over the three months to the end of October. This was despite a continued steep loss of manufacuring jobs, down by 112,000 over the same period. The LFS data showed numbers of people in work at a record high of 28.4 million. ================================================ Pearly it would appear to me from that last paragraph in bold, that the Governments PREFERRED jobs numbers come from the LFS, Labor Force Survey. Isn't that the equivalent of the US "Household Survey"? Here in the US whatever numbers are better typically are the numbers that get touted, and note to that our unemployment numbers typically are based on the household data which has been growing gangbusters (no doubt with people attempting to sell on Ebay, and other such nonsense). Note we also have the birth/death model and I am not sure you have that in the UK at all. I presume you know what that is but if not, the govt assumes a certain number of jobs were created based on historical data about how far along the recovery is presumed to be (birth and death of businesses not individuals). Needless to say they have assumed a hell of a lot of jobs due to new business births vs deaths. So back to my question. It seem that Brown prefers to use the Labor Force Survey of INDIVIDUALS, whereas the "gloomy" report was a survey of actual businesses. As for me, I think the latter is far more accurate although in theory it can miss new businesses being created. Perhaps that is factored in properly in the UK while we ASSUME them here in the US. In that UK LFS, how much of that is part time jobs, selling stuff on Ebay, delivering newspapers just to get some money coming in, or attempting to flip real estate and calling it a job? Mish