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Politics : Moderate Forum -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: Yogizuna who wrote (15197)1/7/2005 11:47:59 PM
From: Raymond Duray  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 20773
 
Festus,

Re: OK, have your facts on a silver platter.

The link you provided was to a newspaper report on a preliminary report from FEMA. In the final report, there is a considerable degree of conjecture, without any definitive conclusion reached as to why the Towers collapsed.

Again, keep in mind that this NY Times article, as most media reports, utterly fails to mention the collapse of WTC 7, which was not struck by any aircraft and which was not significantly impacted by flying debris from the collapse of WTC 1.

Additionally, the NY Times article you cited completely fails to address the response by the NY Fire Department, especially in the South Tower where fire crews were in the vicinity of the fires on the 78th floor, (the lowest level impacted by Flight 175) considered them minor and were commencing to "knock them down". This is not the indication of a conflagration. Not by a long shot.

Here's a summary of what was revealed after the official F.D.N.Y. report came out:

cooperativeresearch.org

<COPY>
August 4, 2002

A “lost tape” of radio messages from firefighters inside the WTC on 9/11 is made public. Supposedly, “city fire officials simply delayed listening” to this tape until after the official report on the fire department's response to the attacks was published, and they still refuse to allow any officials to discuss the contents. The tape reveals that two firefighters were able to reach the crash site on the 78th floor of the South Tower. While there, “Chief Palmer could see only two pockets of fire, and called for a pair of engine companies to fight them.” [New York Times, 8/4/02, Guardian, 8/5/02] Though the New York Times doesn't mention it, these small, containable fires contradict the official explanation that the tower collapsed because of a raging inferno that melted the steel support columns holding up the building.

<END COPY>

***
Here's what was discovered on that tape:

911research.wtc7.net

Selected quotes:

9:25 AM
"Just got a report from the director of Morgan Stanley. 78 seems to have taken the brunt of this stuff, there's a lot of bodies, they say the stairway is clear all the way up, though."

9:52 a.m.
"Battalion Seven ... Ladder 15, we've got two isolated pockets of fire. We should be able to knock it down with two lines. Radio that, 78th floor numerous 10-45 Code Ones (dead people)."

9:57 a.m.
"Battalion Seven Operations Tower One to Battalion Nine, need you on floor above 79. We have access stairs going up to 79, kay."

***
Here's the abstract of the NY Times report on this aspect of fighting the fires:

query.nytimes.com

METROPOLITAN DESK | August 4, 2002, Sunday

Lost Voices of Firefighters, Some on the 78th Floor

By JIM DWYER AND FORD FESSENDEN (NYT) 2017 words
Late Edition - Final , Section 1 , Page 1 , Column 3

ABSTRACT - Firefighters climbed far higher into south tower of World Trade Center on Sept 11 than practically anyone realized; at least two men reached crash zone on 78th floor, where they went to aid of grievously injured people trapped in sprawl of destruction; until building's final minutes, Battalion Chief Orio J Palmer was organizing evacuation of people hurt by plane's impact, accompanied by Fire Marshal Ronald P Bucca; both men died; their efforts are becoming public nearly year after attacks as city fire officials finally listen to 78-minute tape that is only known recording of firefighters inside towers; Fire Dept has forbidden anyone to discuss contents publicly on ground that tape might be evidence in trial of Zacarias Moussaoui; only minute or two of tape covers transmissions from north tower; rest are from south tower; senior officials say this suggests that communications problems that plagued Fire Dept's response to attack were caused not simply by equipment failures, but possibly also by misunderstandings over how certain radio gear was working; tape was recovered months ago by staff members from Port Authority of NY and NJ and offered to Fire Dept officials, who declined offer, not knowing tape contained important information and not wanting to sign confidentiality agreement demanded by Port Authority; Mayor Michael R Bloomberg subsequently ordered fire investigators to review tape; photo (L)
***
And here is the contents of the Guardian report cited above:

guardian.co.uk

NY firefighters reached South Tower crash zone

David Batty and Julian Borger, Washington
Monday August 5, 2002
The Guardian

A tape recording found in the rubble of the World Trade Centre shows that two firefighters managed to reach the wounded on the 78th floor of the south tower, where the airliner struck, before it collapsed.

According to the New York Times a fire commander can be heard calling reinforcements to the south tower but those answering the call were held up by traffic jams and confusion about where to report. That almost certainly saved their lives.

The tape, which has come to light days before the official report on the fire department's response to the attacks is published, was not examined by the investigators.

<Continues onto other topics.....>

***
So, Festus, your "raging inferno" theory is one you might wish to consider scaping as just another "conspiracy theory".

As David Ray Griffin, the author of "The New Pearl Harbor" and
"The 9/11 Commission: Omissions and Distortions" sums it up so eloquently:

There are many 'conspiracy theories' about what happened on 9/11, but there is only one that has been completely debunked... the "official story".

Further Reading:

interlinkbooks.com
interlinkbooks.com

If you take the time to read these books, as I have, you'll never trust the 'official story' again. It's simply got hundreds of holes in it. In fact, we could call the Kean-Zelikow Report the true Emmentaler of government coverups.
truestarhealth.com



To: Yogizuna who wrote (15197)1/8/2005 3:50:37 AM
From: Raymond Duray  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 20773
 
Festus,

Here's another rather well-researched and complete web forum posting on the subject of fires at the World Trade Center:

globalresearch.ca.myforums.net

I believe that if you take the time to study the materials presented and the calculations offered, you'll very likely change your mind about the likelihood that fire is what brought the WTC towers down. After hundreds of hours of research into the matter, I find the fire theory to be preposterous.

Best, Ray :)