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To: Oblomov who wrote (24312)	1/9/2005 9:59:03 PM
From: stevenallen	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 110194

re post 1917 Russia... far more brutal and oppressive than even that of the Czars That is quite a statement, and one which would be refuted by most any current historian who does not have a right-wing ax to grind. I think there are other threads better suited for that type of discussion, so let's just agree to disagree and end it here.

To: Oblomov who wrote (24312)	1/10/2005 12:50:33 AM
From: Elroy Jetson	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 110194

You don't seem very familiar with Noam Chomsky's opinions on the American Revolution. Chomsky portrays the American Revolution as a rebellion by those wealthy of America lacking royal connections. As Chomsky says, "the Founding Fathers created a government modeled upon the republican Romans of their imagination." The point being that they did not want to create a democracy because they mistrusted the "rule of the mob". Instead they created a Republic where they believed that educated civic-minded men of high ideals would represent the people - just like the republican Romans of their imagination. The Founding Fathers were horrified to discover, what they actually got were representatives acting very much like the real republican Romans of history - - Representatives acting in their own self-interest and that of their cronies. A moral slide which the Founding Father believed degenerated over time. .

To: Oblomov who wrote (24312)	1/10/2005 2:45:25 AM
From: Raymond Duray	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 110194

Obtuse, If only you could or would read what I actually wrote, your entire Pavlovian Doggie-like, knee-jerk, shrill and stupefyingly non-responsive anti-communist pap would not have emanated from your keyboard. Do you think? It's certainly not apparent from your post. Are you capable of subtlety and nuance? Neither are apparent in you "Standard John Birch Society Regurgitation #45". Look, Oblomov, I can't help you if you can't read. I did not say, as you so disrespectfully, dishonestly and disingenuously suggest, that the Soviet system was good. LOOK, YOU FOOL, I never said anything of the sort. The issue was one of describing the conditions under which revolution "from below" could occur. My simple point (apparently even simple points are far too complex for the likes of you) was that conditions are not present in the United States today which would indicate any possibility of an overthrow of a criminal and immoral elite by the masses. Please, pay attention to what is written and get over your Pavlovian cur-like training. Otherwise, the lurkers here will simply see you as a rabid and irrational dog.