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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Nadine Carroll who wrote (156259)	1/14/2005 2:28:35 PM
From: michael97123	Respond to of 281500

"Who thinks of Israel as a normal country with legitimate interests, beside the US?" Certainly not Marcos of Arabia or ponce de LEON. The weird things is that i understand what they are saying. History is never black or white. US vs Indians. German/Poland border, US/Mexico. Alscace and Lorraine. Both the winners and losers in historical struggles have events happen in their history that can make a grown man cry. But over time, settlements are reached and peace breaks out because peace becomes more important for the living than the rehashing of historical injustices. In the Middle east, there is always this look back to the past to apportion blame rather than looking toward the future to give both peoples a decent future. If I could only get Abu Mazen and Marcos of Arabia to at least buy into the last point, we would have a chance. I dont want the pals to suffer anymore and I want the israelis not to be forced to live in a garrison state being harangued by self declared historians.

To: Nadine Carroll who wrote (156259)	1/14/2005 2:33:28 PM
From: marcos	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 281500

'Who thinks of Israel as a normal country' It's not a normal country, it's a Whackenstaat, its nationalism is not of a civic form, but rather based on exclusion by religion and ethnicity, and this nationalism they are applying to lands of a people with an almost-but-not-identical ethnicity, and an almost-but-not-identical religion, when zionists knew clearly in advance that both peoples felt themselves distinct and mutually exclusive If that's normal, there is no hope for this species. [edit] - nowhere, by the way, do i ever say that it is all the jews' fault, that is just your standard mis-characterisation on the issue ... anybody can go back and read the posts ... geez sometimes i think you have principles, a mistake maybe

To: Nadine Carroll who wrote (156259)	1/14/2005 2:39:54 PM
From: Noel de Leon	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 281500

You lack historical context here. "Who thinks of Israel as a normal country with legitimate interests, beside the US?" Israel's problems about legitimate interests centers about the border problems as defined in 242 and 338. Few nations contest Israel's legitimate interests in the pre 1967 Israel. And those that do belong to the whackotheocratic bunch. The problem is that Israel has become one of the whackotheocratics. I don't doubt that this is because of thousands of years of persecution but as Michael puts it one has to get beyond that kind of problem.