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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Neocon who wrote (157075)	1/26/2005 3:35:03 PM
From: michael97123	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

"squeamish and self- absorbed" Describes GST to a tee.

To: Neocon who wrote (157075)	1/26/2005 3:50:04 PM
From: GST	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

<I consider letting people die because you will not dirty your hands by beating the information out of an informant to be contemptible.> The history of torture is long and lurid. The United States joined with other civilized countries in an attempt to put an end to torture. We quite rightly condemned Saddam and people like him for using torture. The means of torture run the gamut. The Japanese had family members peel the skin off of brothers and sisters, husbands and wives, and children. They could refuse, but then of course they would be made to feel responsible for the deaths of all their relatives. To save some they would be forced to skin others alive. All for the greater glory of Japan. Sadam used torture to maintain control of Iraq -- we could certainly argue that torture could help us maintain control. And our armies would be more feared if we routinely tore our prisoners apart -- using technology to keep them alive as long as possible while inflicting maximum pain -- the mark of an advanced society. But for the most part we chose, wisely, to simply accept the truth about torture -- it is barbaric and accepting it in any form at any time simply opens the floodgates. Your summary dismissal of the end to torture that has caused more human torment than any man can imagine notwithstanding, no person of any moral character would condone torture unless he was utterly ignorant of the depravity and consequences of this behavior.

To: Neocon who wrote (157075)	1/26/2005 4:12:12 PM
From: epicure	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

The problem with torturers is that they often have the wrong suspect. There is no way, at this time, to guarantee that the prisoner you abuse has the information that you want. It is not squeamish and self absorbed to realize that "dirtying" your hands with torture is a route many of the more unsavory despots of history have taken, and it is not a route anyone civilized would want to take, one would think. I see a cute title for a book though: Torture for Dummies: Not For the Squeamish and Self-Absorbed