Silicon Investor (SI) -- The First Internet Community

STOCKTALK

We've detected that you're using an ad content blocking browser plug-in or feature. Ads provide a critical source of revenue to the continued operation of Silicon Investor. We ask that you disable ad blocking while on Silicon Investor in the best interests of our community. If you are not using an ad blocker but are still receiving this message, make sure your browser's tracking protection is set to the 'standard' level.

Politics : Formerly About Advanced Micro Devices -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: tejek who wrote (217712)	2/5/2005 6:40:00 PM
From: Emile Vidrine	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 1572208

"When you suggest that "ultra orthodox Rabbis" are sucking the blood of circumcized babies, you are not critiquing Zionism, the manifesto of the Jews, but rather you are attacking Judaism, the religion of the Jews, by using disgusting rumor and innuendo.." Rumor and innendo? I cited the entire article from the New Yor Daily News. Is that what you call "rumor and innuendo"? Here are my exact words! No "rumor and innuendo" here, only facts! 'Orthodox rabbi sucks on baby's penis to draw blood in Jewish religious ritual of circumcision...' What a perverse practice by Orthodox rabbis? This is a highly revered tradition among Ultra Orthodox Jews. By MAGGIE HABERMAN DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITER Wednesday, February 2nd, 2005 New York Daily News - nydailynews.com City health officials are investigating whether a baby boy died after contracting herpes from the rabbi who circumcised him, the Daily News has learned. The probe was launched after city officials realized that three infants in the city who tested positive for herpes last year all were circumcised by Rabbi Yitzchok Fischer. The Rockland County-based Fischer is a prominent mohel - someone who performs religious circumcisions. Under Jewish law, a mohel is supposed to draw blood from the circumcision wound to remove impurities. While many mohels do it by hand, Fischer uses a practice little known outside ultra-Orthodox communities called metzizah bi peh, in which the mohel uses his mouth. On Oct. 16, 2004, Fischer performed a bris, or religious circumcision, on twins. Ten days later, one infant died of herpes, and the other tested positive for the virus, according to papers filed in Manhattan Supreme Court by city lawyers. A few weeks later, city Health Department officials found a third baby, on Staten Island, who also tested positive for herpes after being circumcised by Fischer in late 2003, the papers say. Herpes is far more dangerous to infants than adults because of babies' fragile immune systems. The health status of the two surviving boys was not clear yesterday. The city "is concerned that the possible transmission of herpes simplex virus type 1 in infants may be continuing as a result of defendant's practice of metzizah bi peh," city lawyers wrote in the complaint, dated Dec. 22. "Defendant's conduct to date constitutes a threat to the public health." The custom of metzizah is thousands of years old. But experts said that these days, many mohels breathe in through a sterile tube to draw the blood instead of using their mouths directly on the wound, although in some ultra-Orthodox sects, the oral practice is mandatory. The city asked Fischer to submit to a blood test in November, and ordered him to stop performing metzizah by mouth while waiting for the results, court papers show. Officials told him to use a sterile tube and gloves in the meantime. But the Health Department got a report that Fischer wasn't following the order, so the city filed the legal complaint to compel him do so. Fischer, 66, declined to comment yesterday. His lawyer, Mark Kurzmann, wouldn't say whether Fischer has done the blood test, citing medical confidentiality. But he said Fischer is "cooperating with the city's investigation to resolve this matter." "My client is known internationally as a caring, skilled and conscientious mohel," Kurzmann said. He suggested the babies could have contracted herpes elsewhere. He also said there are concerns about the government regulating religious practices. City lawyers declined to comment. Health officials, aware of the sensitivity of the issue, have been talking extensively to community leaders. "There's been a constructive dialogue between the community and the Department of Health, and we're working with [them] to ensure the safety of all our city's children," said Arie Lipnic, spokesman for City Councilman Simcha Felder (D-Brooklyn).

To: tejek who wrote (217712)	2/5/2005 6:45:12 PM
From: Emile Vidrine	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 1572208

"in a vain attempt to discredit their religious leaders" It is not the factual reporting that "discredits" the Orthodox Jewish "religious leaders" that practice this abominable ritual but rather the practice by these NY rabbis of this abominable perversion from the Babylonian Talmud. The thing that "discrdits" here is the fact that the Jewish Talmud mandates this practice and the fact that American Orthodox rabbis continue to practice this abomination from the Jewish Dark Ages.

To: tejek who wrote (217712)	2/5/2005 6:48:53 PM
From: Emile Vidrine	Respond to of 1572208

"in a vain attempt to discredit their religious leaders" It is not the factual reporting that "discredits" the Orthodox Jewish "religious leaders" who practice this abominable ritual but rather the fact that modern NY rabbis continue to practice this abomination and perversion from the Babylonian Talmud. Another thing that "discredits" here is the fact that the Jewish Talmud mandates this practice and the 21st century American Orthodox rabbis continue to practice this abomination from the Jewish Dark Ages.

To: tejek who wrote (217712)	2/5/2005 6:55:27 PM
From: Emile Vidrine	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 1572208

Are the following citations from the Talmud "rumor and innuendo" or simple facts? Shabbath 19:2 They may perform on the Sabbath all things that are needful for circumcision: excision, tearing, sucking [the wound], and putting thereon a bandage and cumin. If this had not been pounded up on the eve of the Sabbath a man may chew it with his teeth and then apply it. The Mishnah Translated by Herbert Danby Oxford: Oxford University Press. 1933. pp. 116-117. These are taken from the Jerusalem Post Magazine. Why don't you read them for yourself! sexuallymutilatedchild.org Shabbat 133B II.1. A. Suck [out the wound]: B. Said R. Pappa, "A Surgeon who didn't suck out the wound - that is a source of danger, and we throw him out." C. So what else is new? Obviously, since we are prepared to desecrate the Sabbath on that account, it is certainly dangerous not to do it! D. What might you have supposed? That this blood is stored up. So we are informed that it is the result of the wound, and in the status of a bandage and cumin: Just as when one doesn't put on a bandage and cumin, there is danger, so here, too, if one doesn't do it, there is danger. The Talmud of Babylonia: An American Translation Translated by Jacob Neusner Number 275. Volume II.E: Shabbat Chapters 18-24. Program in Judaic Studies Brown University Atlanta: Scholars Press. 1993. p. 45. These facts may be "disgusting", as you say, but they are NOT "RUMOR AND INNENDO" but realities.