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Politics : Don't Blame Me, I Voted For Kerry -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: ChinuSFO who wrote (58109)	2/22/2005 2:34:35 PM
From: mph	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 81568

You said the US was the "only country". Evidently you only considered European countries of any import. This honor killing thing is pretty frightening. Sure lacks the protections of the American justice system. en.wikipedia.org

To: ChinuSFO who wrote (58109)	2/22/2005 3:52:58 PM
From: tonto	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 81568

LOLOL...Chinu, 68 countries permit the death penalty. The US is the only country in the world where it sanctions the collective killing of a human being (the death penalty). Does that mean Christianity is the culprit? Some things never change... The election is over. There is nothing to gain from lies. Never was... Does not include any of the European countries, does it?

To: ChinuSFO who wrote (58109)	2/23/2005 5:13:31 PM
From: lorne	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 81568

chinu. You said...."However not all Muslim countries have adopted the sharia. example: Indonesia, the largest Muslim country in the world, followed by India, the second largest Muslim country.".... First Sharia court for Aceh Last Updated: Wednesday, 26 February, 2003, 14:50 GMT Indonesia's troubled Aceh province is to establish the country's first criminal court based on Sharia law, an official said on Wednesday. Indonesia already has religious courts which handle disputes about marriage or inheritance, but not criminal cases. But as part of Jakarta's peace settlement with pro-independence rebels in Aceh, the province has been granted the right to partially implement its own laws, allowing those found guilty to be punished under Islamic regulations. The peace settlement - which also gives the province a number of other concessions - was designed to bring an end to more than three decades of civil war. Aceh's first Sharia court is due to open on 4 March. "The inauguration is planned to coincide with the Islamic New Year," said Sofyan M Saleh, chief of the Aceh High Religious Court. Sharia law calls for the caning of Muslims who propagate beliefs other than Islam or fail to attend Friday prayers three times in a row. In some countries, sentences include death by stoning for adultery and amputating hands for theft, but religious leaders in Aceh have indicated that these penalties might not apply in Indonesia. A small number of Acehnese are Christians or members of other religious groups. They will still be tried in standard secular courts. Some conservative Muslim groups want Sharia law to be implemented in the rest of Indonesia, but officials say there are no current plans to do this.

To: ChinuSFO who wrote (58109)	2/23/2005 5:21:33 PM
From: lorne	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 81568

chinu. You said...."However not all Muslim countries have adopted the sharia. example: Indonesia, the largest Muslim country in the world, followed by India, the second largest Muslim country.".... And here is a bit about India.>>>> Fighting the veil Muslim women mobilize to overcome their traditional second-class status. New Delhi, August 5 2002, (IPS): India's 65 million Muslim women, often called a minority within a minority for their double handicap of gender and faith, are challenging medieval religious laws that have oppressed them for centuries - and for a change some "mullahs" are listening. In recent years, Muslim women have fought fundamentalist interpretations of Islamic law (sharia) by asking the courts to take into consideration basic human rights. indiatogether.org _________________________________________ Caging the women indiatogether.org The news that matters. Communal violence aggravates the conservatism in both communities, more so amongst the Muslims. Ram Puniyani on the All India Muslim Personal Law Board's (AIMPLB) decision to oppose the Child Marriage restraint Act 1929. indiatogether.org July 2002 : Proper legislation to curb child marriages is one of the markers of democratic modern societies, where equal status and rights of women are accepted as a norm. But it is not with ease that the conservative elements (read: vested interests) permit such bills to go through. On various grounds - in the name of religion, sacred traditions et al. - the medieval-minded have opposed the raising of the age of marriage for girls. The thinking seems simple: the earlier girls fall into domesticity, the easier it is to cage them and have a slave and companion for men. With religious sanction. It is in this light that one looks at the All India Muslim Personal Law Board's (AIMPLB) decision to oppose the Child Marriage Restraint Act 1929, which puts 18 years as the lowest age at which girls can be married. One needs to recall that it was opposition by the same worthies to the Shah Bano judgement and creation of hysteria - Islam in Danger, et al - that made Rajiv Gandhi concede the demands of mullhas, and to get the judgment overruled by a new act of Parliament. Something that the Hindutva right never fails to rake up against the "pseudo" secularists. Needless to say, most of the Muslim majority countries have brought in legislation which gives due justice to women in matters of marriage, divorce and the like. In India this is a sore point for civil society. While on one hand it hurts Muslim women, on the other it gives a much-needed pretext to the Hindu communalists to launch one more offensive on the Muslims as a whole, whether they are pro- or anti- such legislation. The story is quite complex. Despite the odds of being a religious minority and from relatively lower-income classes, a large section of muslims was still able to struggle for modern education and obtain decent employment, business ownership, etc. Nehru's impeccable secular credentials and policies gave confidence to the minorities. After his demise the Hindutva elements in Congress were strengthened -- first Indira Gandhi and later Rajiv Gandhi and Narasimha Rao were to use Hindu communal cards for electoral purposes. Communal violence rose in intensity by and by. The violence not only paralyses the minorities for a long time, it also creates ghettoisation - fertile ground for the rise of medieval-minded within the community. Which increases the power of religious leaders, whose retrograde thinking imposes practices which are detrimental to the status and rights of woman in particular. It is remarkable at one level that despite such odds the Muslim women have covered a lot of ground towards a honorable place in family and community. After the Babri demolition, however, the retrograde march has picked up steam and mullahs have ruled the roost. And this is precisely what adds fuel to the communal fire being witnessed by us from 1980s. The two - imposition of conservative norms on Muslim minorities and the strength of communal thinking - have a complementary relationship. Each feeding the other to create a vicious cycle, the result of which is the social atmosphere where the human rights of the weaker sections is sacrificed on the altar of religious nationalism. Here one must concede that that trishul-wielders are the prime movers of communal politics today, while the Mullahs and Law boards of this ilk give ammunition to offensive communal politics. The Indian nation needs neither of these. In current times the communal violence, in which Muslims are often the larger victims of the violence, aggravates the conservatism in both communities, more so amongst the Muslims. Every riot leaves Mullahs in a stronger position. In the aftermath of the Mumbai riots the Muslim womens' struggle for abolition of triple talaq, polygamy and burqa received a big setback. It did take long before the local groups working in this direction could regain the rhythm of their work for reforms amongst the community. In the struggle for preservation of democratic norms, minority rights has no meaning if the rights of women are not taken up with utmost sincerity. It is the struggle of men and women from minority communities along with other democratic-secular forces, which has the potential of being a strong pillar in the struggle against religious fascism, which is the major threat in India today. Moves like the one proposed by AIMPLB will put the struggle back by miles.