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To: Crimson Ghost who wrote (25348)	3/10/2005 7:17:25 PM
From: Mike da bear	Respond to of 116555

yup, the poor slob without insurance gets a 41K bill for something the insurance company would pay 15K. That's why congress is all hot on the bankruptcy bill, gotta make sure that poor slob without insurance never gets out from under the debt burden.

To: Crimson Ghost who wrote (25348)	3/10/2005 7:42:53 PM
From: redfish	Respond to of 116555

I doubt that many uninsureds with big bills ever pay them. Those who would like to have a fresh start and live normal lives file bankruptcy ... those who really don't care about ever having good credit just ignore the bills and live paycheck to paycheck. There are a lot of people who don't have anything in the way of savings or investments and wouldn't have good credit even if they did pay the hospital bill, to them the hospital bill exists only in the abstract. The new bankruptcy law will hurt those who want to live a normal life and plan for retirement, buy a new car someday, own a home, do all the stuff that keeps our economy running. To those who will always live paycheck to paycheck it makes no difference.

To: Crimson Ghost who wrote (25348)	3/10/2005 7:47:52 PM
From: Elroy Jetson	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 116555

That's the bizarre aspect of the cost-shifting that goes on in medicine today. Here's an actual example. A minor out-patient operation that entailed less than three hours of time in the hospital from entry to exit results in a $13,420 bill. Blue Cross allows $1,680 with a $11,740 contract discount. If you are a cash patient, you can negotiate a 50% discount cash discount if you pay 25% up-front and pay the balance over time. This means a cash patient pays $1,677.50 now, or $2.50 less than Blue Cross would have paid - and you also get to pay an additional $5,032.50 over time, or $5,030 more than Blue Cross pays. Of course if you do not make arrangements for an up-front cash payment, you will be billed for the full $13,420. And this does not include the cost of the anesthesiologist, the surgeon, or pre-surgical labs - another $1,500.00 or so. .