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To: mishedlo who wrote (25377)	3/10/2005 11:20:30 PM
From: rich evans	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 116555

This social security debate in my opinion is stupid. It is a tax and SS surpluses have been used/ spent for general revenue under a unified budget. As these surpluses decline less money is available to the Gov and deficits will increase. So what does it matter when the SS costs exceed SS tax revenues. Or when the gov notes are paid and gone. All payments come from the government from its total taxes collected whether SS tax or income tax or excise tax etc, and the SS accounting is just that : an accounting entry only showing how much of the social security tax has been spent in the general budget. The issue is can the government as a whole under its total tax revenues and projected budget afford the projected future SS costs .Paying money to pay off the SS notes which then pays them to the retirees or paying the unfunded liabilities directly resulting from SS promises makes no difference. It is a fiction to think their is a trust fund. You could throw away the SS notes held and the Gov would just pay the same amount yearly from its general revenues to make up any shortfals in payouts from the SS taxes just as it has taken the money when their were surplus SS taxes revenues over payouts to the system. Assuming 3.5% growth average, GNP doubles in 20 years. If all fed taxes represent 20% of GNP then we have tax revs of say about 5 trill in 20 years. Can we afford the present SS as part of this total rev/budget? Who knows? Privatising some of SS is just a reduction in taxes for some ofthe younger of us and a reduction in future SS liabilities for governement . We are changing the program for younger people from a defined benefit plan to a defined contribution plan. It does not add to the real Government debt which includes unfunded liabilities.. It just changes the form to a promissory note on the books from an unfunded liability off the books. We will be receiving less SS taxes or will borrow now to make up the deficiency but will owe later later to the younger retirees. It does not matter whether these liabilities are shown on balance sheet as gov notes or are unfunded liabilities and the whole discussions are based on fictions. We should have discussions which are based on reality not fiction. So the whole thing is stupid politics IMO. The issue is whether one as a younger person want to be dependent on Gov promises in the future which would haveto be funded by more taxes. deficits or reduced promises or have part of your retiremeent funded by your own nest egg thru a complusory savings plan from reducing your social security taxes with reduced future SS benefits. Rich

To: mishedlo who wrote (25377)	3/11/2005 12:16:29 AM
From: patron_anejo_por_favor	Respond to of 116555

Yeah, baby! Here's the new national anthem! (Words and music by Wilco/J. Tweedy): Well the money's pouring down and the people all look down, And it's floating out of town I hit the second deck and I spend my paycheck, And my wife that I just met, she's looking like a wreck Casino Queen, my lord you're mean I've been gambling like a fiend on your tables so green I always bet on black, blackjack, I'll pay you back The room fills with smoke and I'm already broke, And the dealer keeps on joking as he takes my last token Casino Queen, my lord you're mean I've been gambling like a fiend on your tables so green Casino Queen, my lord you're mean I've been gambling like a fiend on your tables so green