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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: GST who wrote (159811)	3/29/2005 6:41:02 PM
From: michael97123	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

Recognize your concern re: caste system as a clear negative for india like Communist Party is a negative for china--like how they treat other peoples and people with differing views like Falun Gong etc. etc. Both have pluses and minuses. I passed this along to sam who has strong feelings on india.

To: GST who wrote (159811)	3/29/2005 6:50:20 PM
From: Satish C. Shah	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

<The dominant aspect of Indian life is the caste system -- and it remains as a ball and chain holding India back from ever achieving more than a fraction of its potential.> I was wondering how much time have you spent in India to make a sweeping remark like that. Further, when you say India, you mean Mumbai, Chennai, Bangalore or Burhanpur Loni.... Thanks. Regards,

To: GST who wrote (159811)	3/29/2005 6:53:48 PM
From: Sam Citron	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

We are not in sync with India on the major issues of social structure and mobility. You are right: affirmative action is very much the law of the land in India, whereas it has fallen into disrepute here in USA. India has come a long way since Mahatma Gandhi declared untouchables 'harijans' or children of God, and the Indian constitution enshrined affirmative action including setting quotas for guaranteed places in university for members of the so-called scheduled castes. While caste system remains very much alive in rural India today and certainly prevents India from achieving its potential, as you say, urbanization and modernization have weakened caste system considerably. Much is going on at the development front to assist untouchables and adivasis (tribals). Additionally, untouchables have attained high office in many regions of the country. Most everywhere in the world, including US, China and India, the rich seem to be getting richer and the poorer seem to be getting poorer. Economists measure disparity of wealth in a society by a measure called the gini coefficient. If you can demonstrate that China's gini coefficient is moving in the right direction relative to India, however, I will concede your main point. Sam

To: GST who wrote (159811)	3/29/2005 7:13:36 PM
From: Sam Citron	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

Note that India's Gini Coefficient is lower than either China or USA [see table at bottom en.wikipedia.org from the United Nations Human Development Report 2004] suggesting greater absolute equality. I do not know about rate of change, however.

To: GST who wrote (159811)	3/29/2005 7:31:34 PM
From: Sam Citron	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

India's Gini Coefficient seems to have moved in the right direction, at least from 1951-1992. wps.aw.com see second chart from bottom Also note another data point for India, China and USA for 1991 to compare with the data posted earlier for 2004. 1991 Gini Coefficient vs 2004 [2004 figures from post above] India 32.53 v 32.5 China 36.20 v 44.7 USA 37.94 v 40.8 Source: ibid., second table from bottom So China has lost more ground than either USA or India since 1991 in the fight against inequality. Sam

To: GST who wrote (159811)	3/29/2005 10:26:29 PM
From: Siva Uppalapati	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

How about US in 50's or 60's where black people were treated very differently than today. I am not saying this in any manner of holier-than-thou or let's see what's in everyone's closet. When you compare diverse societies with more homogenous societies there are historical differences on how one group is treated with respect to others. I am talking about political systems in place which strive slowly but steadily for acheiving social justice and greater equality. Those systems are pretty well established in india. Yes India has to go a long way for acheiving more egalitarian society, but the procedures/systems political structures are in place. I have no idea about China so, I cannot comment.