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Pastimes : Let's Talk About Our Feelings!!! -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Grainne who wrote (100866)	4/10/2005 10:44:13 AM
From: ManyMoose	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 108807

This is one of those topics that if you don't intuitively see the answer to it, you will remain unconvinced by a logical response. Our public institutions are built by us, and for us, for our benefit. Organizations like the Boy Scouts leverage that benefit far beyond what we pay for directly. If the majority of us want to allow the Boy Scouts to meet at the schools, everybody benefits and nobody gets hurt. Even those of you who eschew the Boy Scouts benefit, because they teach moral values that make for better behavior all around. I don't know at what age gay people start internalizing that belief and life style. Certainly most youngsters talk about sexuality long before they have any drive one way or the other, and many experiment childishly and innocently out of curiosity. If people are genuinely gay, that's OK by me. However, it is NOT OK for people to be promoting that lifestyle in our schools and organizations simply to validate their own choices or predilections. The same goes for atheists. The majority of people are NOT atheists, and I see no reason why they should tolerate an atheist agenda in the institutions that they built. Name an institution, a public one with ubiquitous benefit on a scale that can be perceived without major effort (like that of schools and churches), built by atheists. Bigotry is not restricted to mainstream institutions. It's common among those who argue against their reserve and standards. You have a strong moral sense and drive to do good works. That is what makes you able to see the evil in pedophilia. The Boy Scouts and the majority of religious institutions incorporate that into their fabric. Discriminating against them to validate atheism or homosexuality does no good.

To: Grainne who wrote (100866)	4/10/2005 10:57:53 AM
From: Suma	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 108807

Excerpted from your post: I'm not sure why you think Boy Scouts are too young to be gay. There is considerable evidence that sexuality is fixed by very early childhood, if not in uteri. Most gay children when interviewed report always feeling different. It is not a lifestyle choice--why on earth would anyone choose a lifestyle that leads to heightened rates of alcoholism and drug addiction, rejection by their families, and incidences of harassment and even deadly violence against them. Does this sound rational? Atheism is a choice of belief systems. Pedophiles absolutely ruin the lives of the children they prey on. What they do is not only undesirable because we say it is. It is rape (and sometimes murder). How are these these things in any way morally equivalent? I don't understand at all. My reply : You certainly have more than a novitiates understanding that being gay is not a choice. Although most theologians would make it so. If anyone is watching SURVIVOR, a gay man on it described the harassment he had as a child when he was always left out. He is trying to prove himself on the show. Having had students who were gay and also some who killed themselves I find it inexplicable to understand how anyone would think it was a choice. Those religions that say they can cure homosexuality do not cure it. They help the person to repress who he is. In many instances .... more than a few.. I have met both women and men who have families who always knew that they were gay but who wanted children, and or were Catholic and afraid to do anything but the prescribed... Get Married and rear children... who after age forty or so were finally able to reveal their true idenity.. .. When someone posts on these boards that being gay is a choice I think well then why can't we change the color of our eyes, or get rid of the gene that has a proclivity to cancer ... or diabetes... Everything is passed on genetically probably in uteri. Someday they might be able to substantiate this scientifically.. One of my students wrote a play that was produced on TV.The ________ of the Golds..( I forget the first two lines.) It was about a family who had a gay son. When the married daughter was going to have a baby she got it tested and they found that the baby had that gene to be gay. So aborting the baby became the theme. Now we have two issues... (it was a great play) the son who resented the fact that his sister and her husband looked down on what HE was.... and the abortion issue. Double edged sword.. I wish I could remember the full name but Jon Tolins was the author.