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Politics : Moderate Forum -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Suma who wrote (16506)	4/21/2005 6:12:23 PM
From: Raymond Duray	Respond to of 20773

Re: ANYONE IDEAS ? Imprison the employers.

To: Suma who wrote (16506)	4/21/2005 6:17:16 PM
From: bentway	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 20773

You could stop it in short order - just start putting the EMPLOYERS in jail. Give them a rigorous but effective way to verify citizenship. The current system really just winks at the problem. If employers were being jailed, they wouldn't hire illegals - which many do now, KNOWINGLY. Insist on a driver's Lic., SS card and third card. A phone that works. An address that checks. References that check. Credit check. Most corps do such routinely.

To: Suma who wrote (16506)	4/21/2005 10:30:42 PM
From: xcr600	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 20773

Who would replace them? Not today's teenagers. Don't forget they pump $8bln++ into social security for free each year and don't get a dime back.

To: Suma who wrote (16506)	4/22/2005 9:09:29 AM
From: zonder	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 20773

Any solutions? Get Americans to accept comparable wages for similar work?

To: Suma who wrote (16506)	4/22/2005 10:22:42 AM
From: Bucky Katt	Respond to of 20773

Most 5th graders learn in US constitution class that one of the federal governments main jobs is supposed to be to protect the national borders, something the big business/agri lobby & congress have ignored & forgotten. They have let it grow so large as to be unfixable that I suggest everyone screen the classic movie Soylent Green............. scifi.com On this, Earth day 2005, recycle recycle recycle.... Lol..

To: Suma who wrote (16506)	4/23/2005 8:02:49 PM
From: 49thMIMOMander	Respond to of 20773

One needs 10 years of US SS-payments before the first retirement payback cent can be expected, additionally those ten years have to be above some minimum payment. (plus tht funny maximum regressive stuff) Except for those nations who have made a SS-tax-agreement with USA to combine payments, but I do not remember Mexico as one of them. The rules for "guest-workers" would be much better for all those USA IOUs in the "trust USA inflation" funds! PS Well, before picking the best 30 years of 15-16% SS-payments, they are actually corrected by some index, plus some 0.75 factor, plus a nonlinear scale. PPS however, what is more important, SS is additionally an insurance policy, just like in any civilized system. PPPS Don't tell IRS, but I faked my tenth year, I actually never earned those monies, I wasn't even there.. PPPPS I think 6 years would be enough for me to get some of my US SS-payments back, but I was not 100% sure, so I decided to pay me-myself an extra $10,000, just to be safe and a happy SS-payer. ( I hope they won't catch me with that 180 days thing, my comings and goings were luckily not always synchronized with the agricultural seasons) Time will tell, soon..

To: Suma who wrote (16506)	4/23/2005 8:25:14 PM
From: 49thMIMOMander	Respond to of 20773

Correction, "minimum payment" should have been "minimum earnings". Additionally, I have to admit, I never really figured out how that 180-day rule would work for a yearly tomatoe picker.. However, already then I got kind-of "sensitive" to any signs of us starting to use the same legal SS-stuf as US. Anyway, I am happy that some few seem to understand how that system seems to work. PS Why was I so stupid, not registering as a true motor-voter, I could even had made an illegal contribution, but I just said "sorry, me no citizen, very soon return back me-home" But C-SPAN, internet broadband is funny inside.c-spanarchives.org:8080/cspan/schedule.csp

To: Suma who wrote (16506)	4/23/2005 8:52:52 PM
From: 49thMIMOMander	Respond to of 20773

"Documentation is fake and STOLEN from some legitimate person" Much of my documentation actually disappeared, from the office of our immigration lawyer, but I hope they made somebody just a little happier, so I never made a big thing about it (maybe I will find some extra SS-payments??) However, I have to admit, I never really understood how those SS-numbers were constructed, nor those rights to vote, I did not even understand that thing about driver licenses, especially that thing about "uninsured drivers, additional costs". However, I finally understood the two-party, single-seat system, although I could not understand it really was the actual basic funny.

To: Suma who wrote (16506)	4/23/2005 8:57:37 PM
From: 49thMIMOMander	Respond to of 20773

Why is the legendary green card mostly reddish?? Note, not 100% sure, because I returned it long time ago..

To: Suma who wrote (16506)	5/11/2005 10:13:44 AM
From: Bucky Katt	Respond to of 20773

Illegal ideas? Let's give 'em another $billion. >U.S. pays for care of illegal aliens Treatment money for border states By ROBERT PEAR THE NEW YORK TIMES WASHINGTON -- The Bush administration said yesterday that it would start paying hospitals and doctors for providing emergency care to illegal immigrants. The money, totaling $1 billion, will be available for services provided from today through September 2008. Congress provided the money as part of the 2003 law that expanded Medicare to cover prescription drugs, but the new payments have nothing to do with the Medicare program. Members of Congress from border states had sought the money. They said treatment of illegal immigrants imposed a huge financial burden on many hospitals, which are required to provide emergency care to patients who need it, regardless of their immigration status or ability to pay. Under the new program, hospitals are supposed to ask patients for documents to substantiate payment claims. But Dr. Mark McClellan, administrator of the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services, said a hospital should not directly ask a patient "if he or she is an undocumented alien." Instead, he said, hospitals can try to establish a patient's status by analyzing the answers to "indirect questions": Is the person eligible for Medicaid? (If so, payment is generally not available under the new program.) Has the person reported a foreign place of birth? Does the person have a border-crossing card like those issued to Mexican citizens? Does the person have a foreign passport, a foreign driver's license or a foreign identification card? The Bush administration abandoned a proposal that would have required many hospitals to ask patients if they were U.S. citizens or legal immigrants. "In no circumstances are hospitals required to ask people about their citizenship status," McClellan said yesterday. Hospital executives and immigrant rights groups had said such questions would deter illegal immigrants from seeking care and could lead to serious public health problems by increasing the spread of communicable diseases. Cecilia Munoz, a vice president of the National Council of La Raza, a Latino civil rights group, said the new requirements were an improvement over the original proposal but would still discourage some immigrants from seeking treatment. "Hospitals will have to ask confusing, highly technical questions about immigration documents," Munoz said. "That will create a perception in the Latino community that you have to show your papers in order to get emergency care. That's a misperception, but it may be enough to deter some people from seeking care." The new program is run by the Department of Health and Human Services. McClellan said the department would not provide information about illegal immigrants to law enforcement officials for use in "routine civil immigration proceedings." But in rare cases, he said, the information may be used in criminal investigations. The largest allocations this fiscal year are going to California, which will receive $70.8 million; Texas, $46 million; Arizona, $45 million; New York, $12.3 million; Illinois, $10.3 million; Florida, $8.7 million; and New Mexico, $5.1 million. seattlepi.nwsource.com

To: Suma who wrote (16506)	5/13/2005 2:39:47 AM
From: Bucky Katt	Respond to of 20773

U.S. Border Patrol agents have been ordered not to arrest illegal aliens along the section of the Arizona border where protesters patrolled last month because an increase in apprehensions there would prove the effectiveness of Minuteman volunteers, The Washington Times has learned. More than a dozen agents, all of whom asked not to be identified for fear of retribution, said orders relayed by Border Patrol supervisors at the Naco, Ariz., station made it clear that arrests were "not to go up" along the 23-mile section of border that the volunteers monitored to protest illegal immigration. "It was clear to everyone here what was being said and why," said one veteran agent. "The apprehensions were not to increase after the Minuteman volunteers left. It was as simple as that." Another agent said the Naco supervisors "were clear in their intention" to keep new arrests to an "absolute minimum" to offset the effect of the Minuteman vigil, adding that patrols along the border have been severely limited. Border Patrol Chief David V. Aguilar at the agency's Washington headquarters called the accusations "outright wrong," saying that supervisors at the Naco station had not blocked agents from making arrests and that the station's 350 agents were being "supported in carrying out" their duties. "Border Patrol agents are the front line of defense against terrorism," Chief Aguilar said, adding that the 11,000 agents nationwide are "meeting that challenge, head-on ... as daunting a task as that may sound." The chief -- a former head of the agency's Tucson sector, which includes the Naco station -- said that with the world watching the Arizona border because of the Minuteman Project, agents in Naco "demonstrated flexibility and resilience in carrying out their critical homeland security duties and responsibilities." But Rep. Tom Tancredo, Colorado Republican, yesterday said "credible sources" within the Border Patrol also had told him of the decision by Naco supervisors to keep new arrests to a minimum, saying he was angry but not surprised. "It's like telling a cop to stand by and watch burglars loot a store but don't arrest any of them," he said. "This is another example of decisions being made at the highest levels of the Border Patrol that are hurting morale and helping to rot the agency from within. "I worry about our efforts in Congress to increase the number of agents," he said. "Based on these kinds of orders, we could spend the equivalent of the national debt and never have secure borders." Mr. Tancredo, chairman of the Congressional Immigration Reform Caucus, blamed the Bush administration for setting an immigration enforcement tone that suggests to those enforcing the law that he is not serious about secure borders. "We need to get the president to come to grips with the seriousness of the problem," he said. "I know he doesn't like to utter the words, 'I was wrong,' but if we have another incident like September 11 by people who came through our borders without permission, I hope he doesn't have to say 'I'm sorry.' " During the Minuteman vigil, Border Patrol supervisors in Arizona discounted their efforts, saying a drop in apprehensions during their protest was because of the Mexican government's deployment of military and police south of the targeted area and a new federal program known as the Arizona Border Control Initiative that brought manpower increases to the state. The Naco supervisors blamed the volunteers for unnecessarily tripping sensors, disturbing draglines and interfering with the normal operations of the agents. They said that their impact on illegals was "negligible" and that civilians should leave immigration enforcement "to the professionals." Several field agents credited the volunteers with cutting the flow of illegal aliens in the targeted Naco area, saying the number of apprehended illegals dropped from an average of 500 a day to less than 15 a day. More than 850 volunteers, in a protest of the lax immigration enforcement policies of the White House and Congress, sought to reduce the flow of illegal aliens along a popular immigration corridor on the Arizona-Mexico border near Naco by reporting illegals to the Border Patrol as they crossed into the United States. Their goal was to show that increased manpower on the border would effectively deter illegal immigration. Organizers said the protest resulted in Border Patrol arrests of 349 illegal aliens. Area residents, in a half-page ad in the Sunday edition of the Sierra Vista Herald, told the volunteers: "Thanks for doing what our government won't -- close the border to illegal aliens. It was the quietest month we've had in many years ... You made us feel safe because the border was closed." washtimes.com