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To: Oblomov who wrote (62885)	4/27/2005 5:35:50 PM
From: RealMuLan	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 74559

Mao has NOT invented centralized gov. in China. Qin ShiHuang Di in 200BC invented that. And all your guys said about Mao is LIES, NOTHING BUT LIES. Well, I know a lot of electors in the west believe in LIES, otherwise why they vote for those politicians even they know they are lying just to get elected?

To: Oblomov who wrote (62885)	4/29/2005 8:52:30 PM
From: Raymond Duray	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 74559

Re: This was an idea that was very popular among intellectuals in the first half of the 20th century, even in the US. The promise was egalitarianism. The reality was something completely different: "Under capitalism, the basic theory is man oppressing man. Under communism, it is exactly the opposite."

To: Oblomov who wrote (62885)	4/29/2005 10:38:20 PM
From: Slagle	Respond to of 74559

Oblomov, Re: Fascism. The 25 point platform to which you refer is probably the "Program of the National Socialist German Workers Party" written by Anton Drexler, founder of the party with Hitlers help in early 1920. Hitler had been sent as a police undercover agent a few months earlier to investigate the party and soon became a member himself. Despite the name, Drexler and the members of his tiny political party were not socialists; Drexler founded the party on March 7, 1918 to lend support to those in Germany who wanted to continue the war effort and in opposition to strikers and Bolsheviks who were trying to force Germany out of the war. Reading the 25 platform there is nothing in the whole document that advocates socialism. Point 14 demands "profit sharing in large industry" and point 15 demands "a generous increase in old age pensions". Germany had old age pensions since the 1880"s. Point 17 suggested land reform and expropriation without compensation of land "when needed" but this was never put into practice on any of the big Junker estates. Point 11 demanded the abolition of unearned income but this sort of thinking was never part of the Nazi program as practiced. Point 16 contains an attack on the large chain stores in preference to small tradespeople. It is not a socialist program. In Nazi Germany a persons economic life was his to pursue as he saw fit, much as a person in the US today. He worked where he would and was secure in his belongings within the law. His political life was another matter asthe country was a single party dictatorship. And if you got on the wrong side of the Party due to political statements, race or some infraction you could be imprisioned in a work camp. As for centralized economic planning every scheme employed by the Nazis have been used here, at least since the New Deal though with differences in detail. The Nazi system was a closed system with no more foriegn trade than absolutely necessary. The Nazis limited rents, capped large incomes, taxed inheritances, had wage and price controls, state meddeling in agriculture through quotas and allotments, and had a vast paperwork scheme of rules and regulations but all these things have been tried here or are part of current practice. When the Nazis came to power the left in place penison, unemployment insurance and retail trade measures that had been put in place by earlier Weimar governments. Despite their faults, the Nazis in their 12 years in power did not turn Germany into a slave state as happened in the USSR. Slagle