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To: TobagoJack who wrote (64082)	5/22/2005 9:39:10 PM
From: el_gaviero	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 74559

Tobago Jack, <<< We are witnessing the system getting stronger, as in not weaker, starting with finger printing machines installations underway in some public libraries, and concurrently, the sheltering of obviously known terrorists by the administration.>>> No, no, the “finger pointing machines,” the political manipulation, the financial house of cards, the charge over the cliff of the empire builders, etc. etc. are symptoms of fragility and rot. Not strength. The opposite of strength. Tobago Jack, you didn’t answer my main point: China is trying to do now, one trillion barrels later, what we started doing 150 years ago. China can be smart and deserving and hard working and up in the clear blue sky of the moral high ground, and it doesn’t make one bit of difference, because we got to the easy oil first and burned it. I wish the damn stuff had never existed --- “excremento del diablo” somebody down in Venezuela calls it, and he’s right. But it did exist, and we burned it up, and China can’t go down the road we did, because we went down first and used up all the oil on our trip. Hell, did you read the other day.... even the Iranians are saying that OPEC is max’d out. Tell China we’re sorry, and not to get too bent out of shape; the trip wasn’t all that big a deal really, when you really get down to it.

To: TobagoJack who wrote (64082)	5/22/2005 11:02:43 PM
From: Slagle	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 74559

TobagoJack Re: "finger printing machines". This expansion of Federal police state efforts has been going on for quite a long time, at least since Nixon and I have watched it grow and wondered about it. But I don't think its anything to worry about. Here in this country, unlike anywhere else on earth, the people have vastly more firepower than the national government. Indeed, we the people are literally armed to the teeth, especially out in the "red" states and together outgun the Federal government many times over. By far the most heavily armed among us are the gentry and that includes lots of city dwelling gentry though the amount of firepower per person rises in the countryside. In your typical American town or city the most heavily armed person there is likely to be the towns leading businessman, the local Jaycees, the mayor. The New York papers would have you believe that the guys with the guns are the Klu Kluxers and some crazy militia guys out in the piney woods but that is because that New Yorkers were disarmed long ago and hence New Yorkers are helpless defenseless and powerless and so being wish to force that on the rest of us. It Ain't gonna happen. <g> Power here is diffuse and very local. Each state is a little country or kingdom with its own political dynamic and indeed its own standing army in the form of a state militia or national guard. And every governor and state house is accountable in a very personal way to the various local illuminatti out in the state. Each town or city has its own local leading lights who networked with others of their ilk call the shots in the governors office. None of these people are actually afraid of the Federal authorities and I don't think they have any reason to be. And for the most part they are all armed to the teeth so why worry about a federal power grab? Among the national elites there is surely a faction who would like to see us disarmed. This faction is generally associated with the big city liberals of the Rockerfeller type. I would guess they believe (and rightly so) that a disarmed America could be ruled by a smaller group and this ruling group would have to pay less attention to the 50 states. But I think this faction is in the decline and has been for quite a while. The fall of the Soviet Union was really the beginning of the end for this crowd. The more traditionalist types among the national elite, and this would include the Bushes are in favor of an armed citizenry. So here, unlike other places, there is a definate limit upon the ambitions of the national government. Slagle