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Politics : Moderate Forum -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Brumar89 who wrote (17338)	5/28/2005 2:25:18 PM
From: tsigprofit	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 20773

Brumar, somewhere between your thought that America is a shining place on a hill, and Ray's vision of SS guards, lies the truth. I think you both have things to say here, and make excellent points, but the truth is in the middle. Is it closer to your view, or Ray's? That's what we are trying to find out here. Until Bush II took office, I would say the truth was closer to your view, however we have not been that shining city on a hill that Reagan spoke about for many decades. After Bush II, the lying has accelerated. You cannot argue that our closest allies like Britain, Canada, and Australia have serious questions about Bush now, and the direction America is going. I do want us again to be that shining beacon, but it will take decades to undo what has been done in the last 30-40 years, especially these last five.

To: Brumar89 who wrote (17338)	5/28/2005 3:06:27 PM
From: bentway	Read Replies (4) \| Respond to of 20773

This is American Fascism Bruce, not German Fascism. It's been updated. The Brownshirts didn't come for the good Germans right away, first they went after the Jews, then the Gypsies, then the homosexuals - then the Germans that wouldn't bow down. The Bushies have only gone after the Musilms, liberals and the homosexuals so far, and have only erected gulags for the Muslims up to now. Give them time. American Fascism isn't a direct echo of German Fascism. It's got different roots and a different substrata to grow on, but the same soul. American Fascism is a test for the citizens of America - are we as gullible and malleble as the German citizens of the '30's? So far, we're failing. You might be surprised how many foreigners see this, and shudder at the thought of a nuclear Fascist America with ICBM's.

To: Brumar89 who wrote (17338)	5/30/2005 12:53:19 AM
From: Raymond Duray	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 20773

Re: No hiding behind claims of "true patriotism" for you. Since when does illegally invading another nation based on a pack of lie equal patriotism? You are one sick man. Your support for George Bush's madness is tantamount to treason to any ideals upon which this nation was founded. While I praise the values of adhering the principles espoused in the U.S. Constitution, 200-plus years of basically open government, and the honorable adherence to international treaties which are binding on America due to our ratification of these; you, on the other hand, appear to be endorsing in your sick, pathological and psychotic version of patriotism a cunning elite that is abnegating the U.S. Constitution with lockstep legislation creating the perfect police state, you agree that you should be treated like a mushroom (kept in the dark and fed infinite BS) by the privileged elites that are excluding you and all your ilk from the seat of power and you are supporting a rogue administration that is criminally liable for trashing treaty after treaty with the world. You are supporting a criminal cabal that has stolen of national government. I'm the patriot for demanding that the government be taken back by the people and criminals currently using their theft of the government for their own nefarious and immoral ends, not least of which is grotesque self-enrichment, need to be brought to heel, tried, sentenced and perhaps executed as war criminals and as traitors. How you can conflate your blind loyalty to a criminal cabal with patriotism is simply beyond my comprehension. To me, your viewpoint represents one of the greatest threats this nation faces. I.e. a confederacy of dunces, blindly supporting a criminal cabal and calling it patriotism. You have finally lost all credibility. You have turned "patriotism" into the flimsy negligee covering naked, illegal and immoral military aggression. That is shameful and completely un-American.