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To: energyplay who wrote (64453)	5/31/2005 12:40:20 AM
From: Raymond Duray	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 74559

Thanks for providing that understandable and basic designation of the various arenas that secrecy is applied to. My objection is primarily to the arenas of operations where extremely dubious moral and legal judgements are being made by the elites in pursuit of their own greedy interests. There's a world of difference between tapping a Soviet submarine cable in the Barent Sea vis a vis campaigns of assassination and disappearances that are so common for our less honorable agencies. From Operation Gladio to the hatchet job on Allende's democracy in Chile to current schemes being hatched to assassination Hugo Chavez, the U.S. government is acting, or had acted, in a strictly illegal fashion and needs to be curbed. In particular, the thrust of the P2OG (see Note 1 below for detail) seems to be morally questionable. The same, of course, applies to the rise of completely opaque Delta Forces and Special Forces. We are truly entering into the twilight zone of legality and even good sense with the rise of these quasi-fascist operations groups. It is impossible for anyone to suggest that these military spook shops have anything remotely to do with the preservation of transparent democratic government. You don't save a democracy by creating a secret military attack force. *** Note 1: On a more serious note, here's an organization that would have the means, motivation and will to carry out a heinous act like the Hariri assassination: P2OG – Proactive Preemptive Operations Groups – U.S. Dept. of Defense – Bibliography _Revision date: May 30,2005 · Project Censored 2005: projectcensored.org Links to William Arkin’s brief 2002 L.A. Times article and followup by Chris Floyd of the Moscow Times (via Counterpunch). · World War Four: ww4report.com “The Provocateur State” by Frank Morales Snip: “According to a classified document prepared for Rumsfeld by his Defense Science Board, the new organization--the "Proactive, Preemptive Operations Group (P2OG)"--would actually carry out secret missions designed to provoke terrorist groups into committing violent acts. The P2OG, a 100-member, so-called "counter-terrorist" organization with a $100-million-a-year budget, would ostensibly target "terrorist leaders," but according to P2OG documents procured by Arkin, would in fact carry out missions designed to "stimulate reactions" among "terrorist groups"--which, according to the Defense Secretary's logic, would subsequently expose them to "counter-attack" by the good guys. In other words, the plan is to execute secret military operations (assassinations, sabotage, "deception") which would intentionally result in terrorist attacks on innocent people, including Americans--essentially, to "combat terrorism" by causing it!” · Center for Cooperative Research: tinyurl.com Snip: Proactive, Preemptive Operations Group, (P2OG) - The unit would provoke terrorist cells into action, perhaps by stealing their money or tricking them with fake communications, in order to expose them. The exposed cells would then be taken care of by “quick-response” teams. The US would use the revelation of such cells as an opportunity to hold “states/sub-state actors accountable” and “signal to harboring states that their sovereignty will be at risk.” The P2OG would require at least $100 million and about 100 people, including specialists in information operations, psychological operations, computer network attack, covert activities, signal intelligence, human intelligence, special operations forces and deception operations. According to the DSB, it should be headed by the Special Operations Executive in the White House's National Security Council. But according to sources interviewed by United Press International (UPI), people in the Defense Department want to see the group under the Pentagon's authority. [UPI, 9/26/02; Los Angeles Times, 10/27/02; Asia Times, 11/5/02 Sources: DSB Summer Study on Special Operations and Joint Forces in Support of Countering Terrorism, 8/16/2002] · UPI report by Pamela Hess, 9/26/02: tinyurl.com · L.A. Times Report by William Arkin, 9/27/02: (not currently available) · Asia Times, 11/05/02, 'P2OG' allows Pentagon to fight dirty By David Isenberg atimes.com Snip: "Run away from the light": Such might be the motto of a new, covert policy that the Bush administration is considering implementing. According to recent news reports, it would be the largest expansion into the world of black ops and covert action since the end of the Vietnam War in the 1970s. · DEFENSE SCIENCE BOARD Report (Leaked to the Federation of American Scientists) : DSB Summer Study on Special Operations and Joint Forces in Support of Countering Terrorism, 8/16/2002 fas.org