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Politics : Should God be replaced? -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Greg or e who wrote (20494)	6/23/2005 5:28:30 PM
From: 2MAR$	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 28931

Your environmental argument just does not come close to a justification for Abortion on demand. I say the same thing every year when I don't want to put up Christmas lights. "I'm saving the planet" I would think it more of a luxury to have such theological debates in "Absolutes" in issues that seem so easily converted in to incontrovertible "fact" of life's beginnings . But it is one thing to say so from the tamer regions so much less overpopulated as Canada or lets say Kansas , then it would be to say so from Damascus , Khartoum , Cairo , Baghdad or Tehran . Over there you are definitely not in Kansas anymore... So you went to Africa recently , and what do you see ? Maybe a trip through the Middle East next time , or even one up to Asia Minor or India ? Visit these places where populations are as staggering as the unemployment , and the poverty levels are to match . And these places have held human populations not measured in only several hundred years as with Canada or Kansas , but measured in thousands of years . And what resources they have , they will only get one real shot this time around at developing or sustaining . Human populations have reached billions still in only a few short score of centuries .... and that inspite of all the virulent forms of disease , famine , endless wars killing millions etc that have come everyone's way , our numbers have grown immensely. You may believe this is all part of God's plan , but then again you don't see much of the human suffering. What was the population of the earth back when the New Testament was written or Jesus walked on water , some 100mil or so ? Yet you think the envirionmental issue doesn't even come into play , or that it : doesn't EVEN come close ? Yet when you visit an Africa or Middle East now and do not see the poverty and so much hopeless struggles there ...then did you really see ? With 6 Billion of us here now , we ARE -------> a great part of the envirionment !<g> The "Envirionment" , is also man himself . Human societies are envirionments, and through much of the secular wisdom and scientific discovery , and open society debates , we have more or less concluded that we are absolutely no longer able to view ourselves as the center of some religious Universe of our imaginings , but part of an on-going creation a link in the chain . And every society must deal responsibly with its resources or it falls. And these areas and regions are very old, and already have felt the use of 1000's of years of mans presence there which won't find them today being given many more chances at stabilizing at current population levels. Go ahead and light your x-mas lights next time ...but remember an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure . And perhaps contraception made available universally without prejudice ( and education)is the place where we can all start to agree as partial solution to a huge problem . ;)

To: Greg or e who wrote (20494)	6/23/2005 6:07:36 PM
From: 2MAR$	Respond to of 28931

Not that the environment is not important; it just does not have much, if anything, to say on the issue of whether it is right for one Human Person to take the life of another innocent Human Person. "Thank you for your forthright admission. One would not expect it would be so hard to get people to acknowledge something so obviously evident." ;-) Well, I believe in our society that the issue of whether it is the right to allow for a female to choose to "uncreate" her fetus at the early stages (4-8weeks) of pregnancy is and has been by a large majority, already been established . Approximately 55% of all abortions fall into this early range of gestation, with 93% of all abortions performed up to and before the 15th week . It is normal for most people I would think to be uncomfortable with abortions performed after that time , and actually even earlier . Most all would want to agree with you here that the subject of "abortion on demand" could be discussed without having to reference always and repeatedly the: Zygote-Sperm/Egg being a --->fully-formed-human-being question. But if that must be the parameters of the discussion, and must be so phrased and accepted , then we must limit the discussion to prevention of pregnancy , which would be fine . If we could prevent all unwanted pregnancies then , abortion on demand debate would become moot... in a "perfect world" that is.

To: Greg or e who wrote (20494)	6/23/2005 6:28:45 PM
From: average joe	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 28931

"The plight of Women in the third world is real, but it hardly justifies Western Woman killing their own unborn children at any time for any reason." Yet the one you worship and kissy up to does more killing on a wholesale basis than any woman has ever accomplished in the history of the human race. "And MOSES said to them: "Have you kept all the women alive? Look, these women caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to trespass against the LORD in the INCIDENT of PEOR, and there was a plague among the congregation of the LORD. Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known a man intimately. But keep alive for yourselves all the young girls who have not known a man intimately." Greg the good man responds God disagrees with you. Take it up with Him when you see Him. Thou shall not kill means Thou shall not murder. Murder is the intentional taking of innocent life. We already saw that the women were not innocent. Message 21278033