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To: RetiredNow who wrote (68207)	6/29/2005 2:34:59 PM
From: JakeStraw	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 77400

*****OT***** BTW, have you ever looked at NTGR?

To: RetiredNow who wrote (68207)	6/29/2005 3:51:13 PM
From: Taro	Respond to of 77400

Great work done! Honda for sure already did exactly this accurate calculation the other way around prior to launching and pricing this vehicle... That's called good marketing. No doubt in my mind, however, that all of the vendors incl. Honda and the gas providers make more money on this vehicle. Taro

To: RetiredNow who wrote (68207)	6/30/2005 10:03:59 AM
From: John Koligman	Respond to of 77400

Your calculations and those of the leading auto mags hit the nail on the head. If you take a 'gimlet eyed stockpicker's approach' to buying a hybrid, it really doesn't pay, and you have not included what are likely to be some FAT repair bills on the new technology for early buyers. That said, I applaud early buyers. Too bad they are more than canceled out by all the heavy iron buyers. Best regards, John

To: RetiredNow who wrote (68207)	6/30/2005 7:49:19 PM
From: Amy J	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 77400

OT Mindmeld, don't know if you saw this, but this news to me implies several things - but mainly, Pakistan's Musharraf doesn't have adequate power to maintain stability in the region. He's unable to keep insurgents and funds out of the area. I think the USA should immediately platoon about 100,000 troops into Afghanistan and additionally begin preparing efforts to help provide stability in Pakistan as well because it's apparent Musharraf doesn't have adequate power to keep insurgents and funds from entering the region and unfortunately, I believe if Musharraf tries even further to to do so it could backfire completely on him by a complete toppling of his govt altogether, so he may not have enough power to maintain Pakistan's stability either. The USA should relocate him to a moderate region in Pakistan and initate a full-blown stabilization effort of the region, otherwise, I believe this will completely spiral down into an absolute worse situation than Iraq, with much longer term consequences. The Afghanistan war is really a war that's more dependent upon culture - you cannot pay money or $25M and expect to win insurgents over - only in a capitalistic culture such as America & others does this work, but not in Afghanistan. It will not work. The culture in Afghanistan is such that the insurgents feel quite strongly about protecting their "hosts" (bin Laden) by blood, in the fiercest means forever. The only exception to this was once when there was a temporary cultural opening the USA had immediately after bin Laden attacked the USA on 9/11. But this cultural opening was lost when the USA attacked Iraq, so such a venue unfortunately no longer exists, I believe. So, I think the USA needs to prepare to go back to Afghanistan with 100k to 200k more resources, additionally preparing to provide Pakistan with the stabilization support it could need, given Musharraf's lack of adequate power over the region. To let things spiral out of control, will only require 300k troops, rather than 100k. I think the USA has no choice but to prepare stabilization in the area, specifically by targeting the Afghanistan region with more resources, then supporting Pakistan's entire country from the potential toppling Musharraf's by insurgents as the USA initiates stablization of the region. If 1) Musharraf tries to further keep insurgents from entering Afghanistan by Pakistan, his supportive actions would most likely topple his govt indirectly so by the insurgents. If 2) the USA platoons more troops into Afghanistan, this could very likely topple Musharraf as well, as the insurgents react and strike out to take over Pakistan. So either solution above, risks the toppling of Musharraf. Thus, the only option is for the USA to platoon at least 100k troops into Afghanistan, then prepare to support Pakistan's govt from a toppling. On a final note, additionally, no country has ever successfully managed the pass area where the USA is currently fighting, except for the 3 historical countries that became leaders - every other country has failed over the entire history of humankind. This region clearly requires at least 100k more troops. Someone in our govt truly has not studied their history (this pass area) and culture (fighting to blood to protect a host). If they had, they would know what to do. They should have taken the cultural opportunity present after 9/11, but that option is gone now. The govt should never let that area spiral out of control. It shouldn't even risk this. If it does, it could very well topple Pakistan. The USA really needs to increase efforts in Afghanistan and prepare to take over responsibility of providing stability to Pakistan when the insurgents react to Musharraf and the USA. The USA govt cannot expect to win in Afghanistan using money. The gov has already lost it's opportunity to win the war on a cultural basis. The only thing remaining is one of two options - let it spiral out of control (like it is beginning to do) and risk the topping of Musharraf and a much longer drawn out war that's much much worse than ()Iraq ---- or ---- platoon the Afghanistan region with troops and prepare to provide full stability support to Pakistan. () At least in Iraq, the USA has around 30% of the support from a particular Muslim sector. This is not the case in Pakistan. If Iraq is hard, consider if insurgents took over Pakistan, this would even be harder situation for the USA than Iraq. cnn.com The MH-47 helicopter was transporting additional personnel to support U.S. forces fighting insurgents when it crashed, The forces were participating in Operation Red Wing, an effort to defeat terrorists in Afghanistan's Kunar province The MH-47 Chinook is only flown by the 160th Special Operations Aviation Regiment, according to U.S. Army officials. The increase in fighting has reinforced concerns that the Afghan war is widening, rather than winding down. U.S. and Afghan officials warn things could get worse ahead of the parliamentary elections scheduled for September. Officials have warned that foreign militants, backed by networks channeling them money and arms, had come into Afghanistan to try to subvert the polls. Fears have been further compounded by a spate of ambushes, executions and kidnappings reminiscent Iraqi militants' tactics. Afghan officials claim the infiltration of rebels from neighboring Pakistan has contributed to the rise in violence and have urged Islamabad to crack down on militants there.

To: RetiredNow who wrote (68207)	7/27/2005 5:18:12 PM
From: John Koligman	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 77400

OT Hello MM, just another interesting tidbit on the current hysteria over hybrids. Brock Yates had a great column in the current issue of Car and Driver about them. In addition to the fact that you have to drive perhaps 200k miles before making up the cost difference, Brock brought up the point of disposal of these huge battery packs. Not very environmentally friendly. He also brought up the point that nobody really knows how long the NiMH packs will last, although current warranties are for 8 years. Finally, he said replacement cost for the battery pack is currently $5200 bucks for Toyota/Lexus hybrids, and $7200 bucks for the Ford hybrid. Junk a perfectly good car when the battery goes?? Best regards, John PS - He also talked about resale value hits for older hybrids, the fact that NiMH might lose charge ability with age, and the fact that some current emergency crews won't enter hybrids involved in accidents because of acid burn worries...