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To: TobagoJack who wrote (65743)	6/30/2005 8:16:01 PM
From: energyplay	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 74559

I don't think current US policy towards China is containment. To the extent the US has a coherent policy ;-) I think the current US policy (my guess, and not my preferences)would like to see China - 1)richer, pulling another 400 million out of poverty, and trading with the US on resonably equitable basis. China will be expected to observe the WTO intellectual property protections a little closer, but it is likely China will get much more slack on these issues than others 2)stable, with government continuity 3)with some kind of stable unification with Taiwan 4)With a military capability which can resist Russia, deter Islamic extremists, and .... 5)A military which can deter the Japanesse without scaring Japan into going nuclear or having a massive arms buildup After all if BOTH Japan and China are heavily spending on the military , where's the money to buy US Treasury bonds ? 6) With a military and strategic position which maybe significant, but not capable of blocking US power projection away from Asia, such as US activities in Africa, Persian Gulf. This touches on technology arms sales to states we don't like, such as missles to Iran. 7) With a military and strategic position which does not become a mortal threat to the United States or it's close allies. The role of the former Soviet Union will be forclosed. This gets interesting, is Japan a close ally of the US, and will it be in the future ? Would the US like an ally with 1.3 Billion people or 120 million ? Should the US stick with the wonderful folks who brought us Pearl Harbor and the Bataan Death March, or a country the US has been allied with (in SOME form ;-) ) since the 1940s ? a little stretch here... *************** Items 1-4 closely match the current plans for a "moderately prosperous nation" #5 avoid triggering major Japan militarization is a big issue for the US, even as we are allies with Japan, and expect them to occasionaly support US "adventures" in distant lands... #6 blocking US activity outside of Asia, is a minor source for conflict, but not a huge concern as a practical matter. #7 Is pretty obvious. There is also a very large gap between China being able to deter a possible attack by the US, and the massive capabilites for annihilation the Soviet Union built up. This is also more of a future issue, unless certain actions or patterns of actions occur. Unless China really wants to spend the effort for world domination - by the way,China can have the French as allies - it might be useful to avoid being Topic A for strategic planner s in the US, Europe and the rest of the world. Note no mention of 'human rights'.....

To: TobagoJack who wrote (65743)	6/30/2005 10:33:39 PM
From: shades	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 74559

"Perhaps not, and yet ... because they simply have to live with each other, else nothing matters anymore." Jay you are absolutely right, but I try to tell so many of my friends how it in their kids and thier own best interest to live with each other and stop making mountain out of molehill and make the marriage work - but they don't listen Jay - what the divorce rate over on your side of the globe? It pretty high here, people - congress included - watch too much hollywood and if they can't have thier perfect world will destroy children, parents, family, lives, nations before they will let go of that bullshit - yet you think they are gonna embrace slant eye stranger when they spitting on thier own husband and children and with thier dumb shortsightedness ruining thier own lives and happiness in the process - you got to wake up!! from the individual to family to community to city to nation - it rotten all the way up! Steve Jobs could have had nice family and lots of love if biological mom and dad got married and made it work - but NO - she not gonna give up her dreams for a baby and drop out of grad school - daddy probably not ready to marry that selfish woman either - Jobs came second to her masters degree - a piece of paper with letters on it - so he got the boot - til this day it still a source of great emotion for him - this is the norm in america now amongst many people I know. Do you know if Job's bio father even knew? Maybe his mom not even tell his dad. Nothing matters to this type but the next 200 dollar pair of jeans, the next pay raise, the next selfish materialistic fantasy - making it WORK and living with each other - fugg that. I learned the hard way - my baby dead now - no they don't have to make it work. This is burger king land - you get it YOUR WAY and fugg everyone else. What if when you get woman you love pregnant and she say nah I don't wanna have coconut yet - I still want more time for ME - and she go get abortion and kill your baby and all the laws support her and then she leave you - would you believe then that you HAVE to LIVE together? SIMPLY - HAHA! Societies can be design to unite us or divide us - I see much division in my society - not much unification - families are not like in china - it is about ME ME ME over here, not about the greater good. Ayn Rand and her SELF MADE MAN crap has permeated our culture well.