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Politics : Formerly About Advanced Micro Devices -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: Elroy who wrote (242285)7/20/2005 3:24:30 AM
From: tejek  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 1573847
 
Dude, the "war" is over. The current situation in Iraq is not a war, its an effort to give the current Iraqi government the ability to resist and destroy attacks by fanatic killers.

Dude, you tell the guys fighting in Iraq, getting shot at, sleeping on the desert floor, doing patrol in 110º heat, who shower once every two weeks and are eating K-rations that this ain't no war. Let me know when you do so I can watch them laugh in your face.

I can think whatever you want about the pre-invasion decision (when the "war" occurred"), but the current effort to provide security to Iraq is a humanitarian effort. The coalition is sacrificing to help regular Iraqis, as far as I can tell. The current "problem causers" are the people kidnapping children and blowing themselves up in the name of God knows what. The self serving thing to do now would be to just leave, and let the remaining Iraqis descend into chaos and civil war. Is that your suggestion, or what?

The decent thing to do would be to leave before we screw up their country any more than its screwed. I can't stand to watch the evening news any more. Iraq looks worse with each passing day.

You would think you hawks would get it. Nothing has gone right since shock and awe over two years ago. Most people would understand that they've screwed up but not you guys.....knowingly grasping at straws, you all claim hopefully that the WAR is almost won as soon as they clear out the insurgents in another Fallujah or when they have another election or when the govt is turned over to the Iraqis or when the purple index fingers are waved in the air. Just one more hill to climb; one more stream to ford. What a joke. This war was ill conceived and based on lies, greed and arrogance. It doesn't have a chance of working......any fool should know that by now.

But I agree, it should have nothing to do with partisan politics. I think GB is a fool, and I generally vote Democrat mainly on the issues of abortion and gun control (I think it should be the women's decision, and I think you don't need a gun). But if you consider obligation are to do what is best for the world (as I do) and no to do what is supposedly best for the US (Ted's apparent view) then it is your obligation to help an oppressed enslaved people get free of their enslaver. Although that is not the reason GB led the US to war (something about WMDs), it's the reason I think it was and is a just and moral effort.

What I believe is best for the US is also best for this world. This world does not need to have a superpower running amok with incompetents at its helm.



To: Elroy who wrote (242285)7/20/2005 4:36:48 AM
From: Tenchusatsu  Read Replies (3) | Respond to of 1573847
 
Well said, Elroy. Say what you want about going in, but we're there now doing a good thing. A stable Iraq helps the Iraqis, helps the Middle East, and reduces the source of Islamic terrorism. Sure, it's hell getting there, but I believe we can pull it off.

Now I don't have an "only kid," but I do know people who are in Iraq right now, and I'm damn proud of them. Unlike what JF assumes I should believe in, I hope they don't get "sacrificed," and I pray they may stay safe and successfully come out of there with a real victory.

Tenchusatsu



To: Elroy who wrote (242285)7/20/2005 6:31:35 AM
From: RetiredNow  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 1573847
 
Why is it that most Middle Easterners don't seem to want to be ruled by hardline extremists, yet they inevitably are ruled by extremists?

Palestinians: Gaza evacuation bad for us
Arab workers to lose income, fear hard-line Islamist rule
Posted: July 20, 2005
1:00 a.m. Eastern

By Aaron Klein
© 2005 WorldNetDaily.com

NEZER HAZANI, Gaza – Missions from around the world have been flocking to Gush Katif to protest next month's withdrawal from the area, but there is one group opposed to the Gaza evacuation that has remained largely silent, in part out of fear: Palestinian workers.

Currently, about 1,000 Palestinians travel each day from Gaza City and Khan Yunis into Gush Katif, the main slate of Gaza's Jewish communities, to staff the areas' famous greenhouses, which supply Israel with nearly 70 percent of its produce.

At the height of the agriculture season, from November through May, upwards of 3,000 Palestinians work in the greenhouses.

Most of the Palestinians workers here enter Katif through a crossing inside the Nezer Hazani Jewish farming neighborhood, which borders Khan Yunis. The crossing is opened at 6 a.m. and 8 a.m., and again at 2 p.m. and 4 p.m.

A greenhouse in Gaza (photo: Alex Traiman for WND)

Greenhouse duties include planting, harvesting, temperature and water regulation, and treatment and oversight of produce. Some Palestinians serve as supervisors for other workers.

Jewish greenhouses pay an average worker about $5 an hour. In the Palestinian territories, laborers would make about 40 cents an hour for the same amount of work.

"The workers are very grateful for the opportunity," Katif spokeswoman Debbie Rosen told WND.

But now, with the Aug. 17 evacuation threatening to remove their source of income, Palestinian workers here are quietly expressing strong opposition to the Gaza withdrawal.

WorldNetDaily talked yesterday with several Nezer Hazani greenhouse workers. They agreed to the interviews on condition their last names not be printed and explained no photographs could be taken out of fear of retaliation from area militants who, they said, would be upset at their expressing solidarity with Jews.

Saed, a 42-year-old greenhouse worker who commutes every day from Khan Yunis, said, "For me, it's a really good life. I make enough money to feed my family. I am close with [my bosses], who treat me with respect. I don't want to be out of a job."

Fhaud, 63, a greenhouse supervisor, said he has grown attached to his Jewish employers.

"I've known my boss since he was a kid and I worked for his father," he said. "Some workers here have known three generations of Jewish families. I was invited to all the bar mitzvahs and weddings."

Mahmoud, who works in the same greenhouse, said, "I don't want the disengagement to go through. Not just because I'll lose a job, but because I'll lose friends."

Mahmoud said he thinks the Gaza withdrawal is immoral. "The Jews who live here didn't do anything wrong. They were put here by a lot of help from the Israeli government, and told they would stay forever," he said. "Now the Israeli government wants to rip them out. It's not right."

Anita Tucker, one of the pioneer farmers of Gush Katif, told WND, "Like usual, the Palestinians are losing out when Israel leaves. These workers have large families who depend on the income they get in our greenhouses. We've all grown quite close. Before the intifada and all the closures, I used to go to their homes on the Palestinian side. We've shared a lot of family celebrations."

The workers also say they fear the domestic consequences of Israel's Gaza withdrawal.

"We know once Israel leaves, Hamas is in power. A lot of the Palestinians in Gaza are really upset about this because life won't be good for us," said Mahmoud.

With Prime Minister Ariel Sharon's Gaza evacuation plan drawing closer, and Hamas swiftly gaining power in the area, analysts have pointed to worrying signs the terror group will use its gains to impose a Taliban-like Islamist regime on the Palestinians in Gaza.

Hamas recently banned an open-air music and dance festival, saying it was against Islam. Israeli sources say Hamas has established its own hard-line Islamic court system in Gaza that is being used in the place of the Palestinian Authority's official judicial system.

There have been reports of a Hamas Anti-Corruption Unit, described by intelligence sources as a kind of "morality police," enforcing hard-line Islamic rules on local residents. The Unit recently carried out a high-profile "honor killing" of a woman it suspected of committing adultery.

"We are treated much better in Israel than by Palestinians in charge," said Saed.

Saed explained when he crosses into Katif he is regularly extorted by Palestinian forces to guarantee his safe passage.

"On the Israeli side no problems. But on the Palestinian part of the crossing, the security forces make us give them sometimes 50 percent of any produce we bring back just to get through okay."

Said Mahmoud: "It's not good for us. I want Israel to stay."



To: Elroy who wrote (242285)7/20/2005 7:13:45 AM
From: Road Walker  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 1573847
 
re: Dude, the "war" is over. The current situation in Iraq is not a war, its an effort to give the current Iraqi government the ability to resist and destroy attacks by fanatic killers.

Don't "Dude" me. I don't care if you call it a war or a house party, it is what it is. Semantics don't change anything.

Our basic difference is that you believe we are capable, with our mighty military, of constructing a country out of the ethnic and religious mess that is Iraq. Not only do you believe that we can do it, you believe that we have the moral right to do it, and in the Iraq case, that it's in our interest to do it. You also believe that the sacrifice of US soldiers and their families and Iraqi deaths and $300Billion and the creation of a terrorist generation and the enmity of most of the world is worth whatever you imagine the positive outcome will be.

I believe none of the above.

John