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Pastimes : History's effect on Religion -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Greg or e who wrote (224)	8/5/2005 1:06:52 PM
From: Sun Tzu	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 520

Could you define what "early Christianity" means to you...what era, and if you can, how it is different from today's? Why is it that you think Gnostics were not Christian?

To: Greg or e who wrote (224)	8/5/2005 1:22:05 PM
From: Sun Tzu	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 520

Food for thought... it is generally accepted that orthodox Christianity and its canonical texts do not predate the Gnostic movement, but grew up alongside it, out of some of the same sources. Many of today's scholars are convinced that the Gospel of Thomas was used by 1st Century gnostics as well as by writers in the Johannine tradition whose interpretation of the person and meaning of the Christ led to the developed doctrine of the 3rd and 4th-century Christian church. Other gnostic texts make no mention of Jesus or other Christian figures. Many Gnostic sects were made up of Christians who embraced mystical theories of the true nature of Jesus or the Christ which were out of step with the teachings of orthodox Christian faith. For example, Gnostics generally taught docetism, the belief that Jesus did not have a physical body, but rather his apparent physical body was an illusion, and hence his crucifixion was not bodily...

To: Greg or e who wrote (224)	8/8/2005 2:07:04 PM
From: Alastair McIntosh	Respond to of 520

You seem to be saying that Gnostic Christians did not appear until the second century. However it is likely that Gnostics such as the Essenes and Therapeutae developed the Jesus myth well before any literalist sect appeared. As far as your statement that Paul was just one of the "literalists" his writings suggest otherwise. The earliest New Testament writings are those of Paul who was undoubtedly the most influential Christian writer ever. It is clear that Paul's Christ is not an historical figure. When Paul speaks of "seeing" Christ the original texts indicate that "having a vision of" is the correct translation. Gnostic teachers of the second century viewed Paul as the "Great Apostle" and derived many of their teachings from his writings. The early church was so worried about Paul and his non-literalist views that they forged the anti-Gnostic Pastoral letters (Timothy and Titus) in his name. You are not even close to showing that my statements on early Christian views on reincarnation and resurrection are wrong. Remember that literalism was only one of many sects of early Christianity.