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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: michael97123 who wrote (168806)	8/12/2005 11:31:00 AM
From: Sun Tzu	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

I really wish you'd spend more time reading the news from Israel. Do you think Mr. Ariel Natan Pasko is an anti-semite too? Here is his article titled, "This War is for Us" israelnationalnews.com Shades of Islamic illusions of granduer!! But never mind what dear Ariel says, have you looked at the position papers Perle and Faith produced while being consultants to IDF? Is it a coincident that once they came to power US got to do what they told Israel it must do for its self interest (but was declined as being too risky)? At best you can say they find Israel's interest as being the same as America's. But would they have come to the same conclusions as to what is in America's best interests if they had a different perspective on Israel? See also "The Israeli origins of Bush II's war" thornwalker.com It is too easy to dismiss any criticism and connections as motivated in anti-semitism. That is not true, but even if it was, the old addage remains, "just because I am paranoid, it does not mean they are not out there to get me". ST PS, just to be clear, I agree with you that most American Jews have been and are against this war. The claim is that the Israeli lobby has pushed for the war.

To: michael97123 who wrote (168806)	8/12/2005 11:59:01 AM
From: el_gaviero	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 281500

Michael, It seems to me simply not possible to deny that a major impulse towards the war in Iraq has come from Jews, as neocon ideologues (Wolfowitz, Perle, etc), as supporters in the press (Krauthammer, Krystol, etc), as political organizations very likely with spy-links to Israel, (AIPAC), and as bureaucrats with links to the most radical elements in Israel, the settler movement, e.g., Feith and Abrams. If noticing all this concerted effort on the part of people who happen to be Jews makes you angry, I’m sorry. I would be quite willing to debate this issue with you, dispassionately. I’m not encouraged however that you are quick to point out that you have in your pocket a can of mace called “anti-Semitism” and that if I don’t watch out, you are going to pull out your supply and start spraying it all over me. I guaran-damn-tee that kind of bullshit threat doesn’t make me want to mind my p’s and q’s, or make me watch what I say, but just the opposite: it gets the vitriol juice flowing all the stronger. Anyway, “anti-Semitism” has been sprayed around so much that it has lost its sting. If you were to try to apply it, I would take your doing so as an admission of defeat. Ad hominem is the last refuge of a scoundrel who is losing an argument --- as they say, or should say if they don’t.