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To: Moominoid who wrote (68192)	8/27/2005 10:58:13 PM
From: Slagle	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 74559

Moominoid Re: "oil fields" Yeah, injecting the gas into oil fields is probably the best way. But YIKES, in the USA with I suppose thousands of utility boilers scattered all over the country, how would you get all that gas to the oil fields? Pipe lines? What would THAT cost in energy terms? And would that be enough to matter without the rest of the world doing the same thing? And what explains the several "warm periods" that have occurred in the last several thousand years, long before the industrial revolution? Slagle

To: Moominoid who wrote (68192)	8/28/2005 1:34:30 AM
From: 49thMIMOMander	Respond to of 74559

Celebrating the 90th Anniversary (oil on canvas) of beloved artist and author Tove Jansson (1914-2001), the creator of Moomin. The new Moomin stamp (Grand- and mom- plus moomin-fathered, plus Gerrymandered Snufkinned) finland.org The Moomin stamp will be printed on a paper stock that has a fabric-like feel, a new and unusual concept in the world of stamps. The new material gives it a 3-D effect. Finnish artist Päivi Vainionpää designed the stamp that features two characters, the Moomin Troll and Snufkin. Total duck-control, oil on canvas. kajstenvall.com in just 9 months, it will be interesting, once again.. kajstenvall.com Gas or oil?? kajstenvall.com

To: Moominoid who wrote (68192)	8/28/2005 7:08:56 AM
From: shades	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 74559

What surprised me was how convinced she was that hydrogen was an "energy source". But something I notice of course is that my students don't neccessarily realize that I am an expert on some things :) Moo this has been well documented by some other researchers - I saw a special on annenberg/cpb titled Minds of Our Own - Lessons From Thin Air - they asked harvard and yale college grads what are trees made of - no one knew. Here is a free video you can show your students that will help to illuminate them to grasping physics fundamentals of our universe that the SCHOOLS failed to teach them - it was a real hoot. Most could not conceptualize the right answers - thier brains had not been conditioned to think in the right ways. Here is a short video showing the grads getting interviewed and showing what fools even science grad types perhaps can be. Remember the ancient tribal guys could not work the complicated european machines, but thier children learned them fast as I talked about before - same reason why I think you say online learning is not currently showing much usefulness - it will take a new generation who are very comfortable with the net and online life to really get the big producitivity from it. learner.org 2. Lessons From Thin Air Just about everyone will agree that trees are made from sunlight, water, and soil the trees sucks up from their roots. But the surprising truth is that trees are made from air! Trees are solar-powered machines that convert air into wood. Why is it that, despite the fact that photosynthesis is one of the most widely taught subjects in science, so few people really understand the central idea underlying this system? Starting with this question, program two explores why something taught in school can go unlearned and shows that we often teach without regard to what children actually need to know. darkwing.uoregon.edu Minds of Our Own (Where did the mass of this tree come from?) – Program Two: Lessons from Thin Air The Annenberg CPB, Math & Science Collection I use both of these films as engagement activities to generate discussion by faculty. Many themes are included in these two films. Students are not learning what we think they are learning. Even students from prestigious universities have misconceptions about scientific concepts. Inquiry is a way to help students confront their misconceptions, build mental frameworks so they can better understand content/concepts. Sometimes I use the entire film, other times I use segments. My choice depends on the nature of my group and the amount of time we have in the workshop.

To: Moominoid who wrote (68192)	8/28/2005 7:50:37 PM
From: Maurice Winn	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 74559

Moom, back in the 1980s, when I was trying to figure out how to solve the greenhouse effect problem, I did some boe calculations on CO2 compression, liquefaction and maybe even freezing into dry ice to be stacked up "for a rainy day" to be released if an ice age loomed. One thing that very quickly became apparent is that the oxygen added on makes a very large volume of CO2 to be disposed of. It was a long time ago now, going on 20 years, since I was doing that, but as I recall, reinjecting the carbon with oxygen attached into old wells to get rid of it and maybe help displace more oil and gas would fill the wells very quickly. As you pointed out, where oil comes from and where it's burned are two very different places usually, so shipping the CO2 back to the well would be an enormous cost too. Stacking CO2 in mountains of dry ice seemed like a lot of fun, with skiing available right there in the city. But the best idea seemed to be compression and cooling to liquid, then piping it down to 400 metres under the ocean where it would remain a liquid in a big puddle, or just pouring it down to 400 metres and letting it sink and dissolve at that depth and lower. My calculation at the time was that about 25% extra energy would be needed to do that. So it wasn't as cheap as feeding it to atmosphere breathing plants and giving them a fractionally warmer environment. While ocean acidity increase will change things a little, we are still well within historic bounds of CO2 levels in the atmosphere, so it's not as though the oceans will die. I say pump on, burn on and damn the torpedoes. Americans have a right to SUVs with no or low taxes on the fuel. Personally, I think it would be much better to double the price of fuel via taxation and cut other taxes by the same amount. Taxing pollution and commons destruction is a lot better than taxing productive enterprise which does not harm and does a lot of good. It's also very easy to tax fuels as pipelines, refineries and supertankers are easy to measure and collect from. The tax is also spread across the economy so it would not ding a narrow segment of society. Mqurice