To: elmatador who wrote (566 ) 9/18/2005 7:12:11 AM From: Elroy Jetson Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 217738 I laughed when I read your two posts on Germany. The things you describe are what defines German culture, and for that matter the culture in most Scandinavian nations. When you said "There’s something fundamentally wrong with Germany" I thought something had changed since I had been there last -- but you went on to describe long-standing German culture. The only German rebel I have ever met is Nina Hagen -- and she was kicked out of East Germany, (for singing delightful songs like "Wau Wau"); then left West Germany, after a short stay and one album "Unbehagen"; for West Hollywood, Paris, and New York and albums like "Nun Sex Monk Rock." And in rebelling she confirmed her essential German spirit. ninahageninbrasil.hpg.ig.com.br Scandinavians call it the "crab basket." If you put a crab into a basket, it will quickly crawl out. But when you put more than one crab into a basket, you don't need to close the top of the basket. If one crab begins to crawl up the side of the basket toward the opening, the other crabs grab hold of him and pull him back down. And apprenticeships -- that has been the core of German culture for many generations. You would have more luck outlawing the Samba in Brazil, or requiring water to run uphill, than trying to remove German apprenticeship laws. If you want to work in a department store as a Sales Clerk, you need to complete the two year apprenticeship which includes accounting, purchasing, basically every aspect of retail. I have one friend who majored in design in college, then completed a three year carpentry apprenticeship, then finally obtained the job he wanted designing furniture. Flemish cartographer Gerhardus Mercator, who lived from 1512 to 1594, called Germans "furious blockheads." A people who insist that all tasks be done "the right way" and by the "right Guild". I find it ironic that the Flemish and Walloons of Belgium more closely fit this description today, than do the Germans. I suspect they probably did in 1550 as well -- people always complain most about those traits in others that they dislike about themselves. .