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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Maurice Winn who wrote (171045)	9/21/2005 1:11:19 PM
From: Sun Tzu	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

When Jews feel safe against genocidal Islamic Jihad maniacs, then they won't bother maintaining weapons, the same as I don't maintain weaponry to prevent my neighbours coming over my fence. What load of crock!! Who made the Jews such angels? Weapons bring power and power has always been used for more than just purely defensive purposes. What makes you think Jews would behave any differently?

To: Maurice Winn who wrote (171045)	9/21/2005 9:35:28 PM
From: neolib	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

Neolib, resolving territorial issues "between Jews and Arabs" is a matter of property rights. The UN got the Jews into the situation, by establishing Israel. Now it's up to the UN to secure the Israeli position and resolve property disputes with the individuals who were dispossessed against their will without reasonable compensation. I'm quite certain that Israel does not desire their assistance at this point in time. A direct result of the current military realities in the region. My ancestors were dispossessed too, and so were ancestors around the world, because until recent times, possession by conquest was the way humans determined ownership of land, as did all of animal species. So it's not possible to rewind the clock fully and compensate ancestors or return property to descendants. An example of the stupidity of modern compensation for past sufferings is the idea of the government giving melanin-rich Americans taxpayer money because they had ancestors who were slaves. Why a 3rd generation Chinese immigrant should have tax money taken from them and have it given to a descendant with only a fractional relationship with the original slave is a puzzle. I mostly agree with you, but I'd much prefer to see a comprehensive policy that exhibits a sense of fairness and is above favoritism. In the case of African slaves, I've pointed out that in reality Africans did very well in spreading their genes around the globe, all accomplished as underdogs. A truly spectacular achievement that someone aught to chronicle. Contrast that with European genes in Africa today, in light of the fact that Europeans owned the whole continent in the not so distant past. When I talk about fairness, I'm thinking more about treaties between the US government & Native Americans. Most whites in the USA are very quick to say that old treaties which were violated cannot reasonably be compensated now since the "realities on the ground" now are much changed. The argument is basically that if one steals, and the injured party cannot get a favorable judgement in reasonable time, then the thief and his heirs may reap the benefit. While I understand the concept of statutes of limitation, I also understand perfectly well that racial discrimination in the past was often the source of preventing justice. I'm not trying to undo the millennia, but land theft within living memory is another matter. That is the problem for Israel. I don't think disarming Jews in Israel is a good idea, including nuclear bombs, which are just another weapon, albeit one capable of destroying a lot in one go instead of a lot in 100 bombings. Dresden and Nagasaki both looked quite destroyed after the bombings. The difference between being cooked alive by chemical fire, or nuclear bomb, is rather academic. Both are hideous and equally so. In that case, they are just another weapon for Iran as well. The purpose of a NUN would be purely to handle commons issues such as radio spectrum, air quality, ocean, rivers, space [geostationary orbits, incoming bolides], borders and threats across borders. Sounds fine to me, but the rightwing of the USA will never appreciate your point of view. Since they are the ascendent political power here, don't expect any miracles.