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Politics : Formerly About Advanced Micro Devices -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: tejek who wrote (254318)	10/10/2005 5:10:11 AM
From: GUSTAVE JAEGER	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 1570807

Re: Granted, but most Europeans are unwilling to wage wars and crusades against Arab/Muslim countries all the same. Even Italians, Britons, Spaniards, Poles,... --whose governments sent troops to Iraq-- have demonstrated against the Iraq war and against their countries' alliance with the US in waging it. So what? That's not the reason why Europeans are against Turkey's admission. Wrong... Subconsciously it is for, as I pointed out, the whole EU enterprise was initially contrived (and advertised) as a "war-and-peace" issue. Every new entrant into the EU is implicitly viewed as a country/people with whom war --military war-- is thenceforth unthinkable. Therefore the ostracizing of Turkey portends the unconscious fancy of a European-Turkish war.... Re: There are several components to Europeans' reluctance.......one of those components is racism. Turks are some of the most despised people in Germany and Sweden although official policy says otherwise. Indeed. Likewise, Gypsies make up the most despised underclass throughout Central and Eastern Europe(), so much so that, had EU officials held Central/Eastern European countries to the same humanitarian standards they imposed on Turkey as regards Kurds and Armenians, it's likely that none of them would have qualified (for EU membership). So, what's the solution? Rounding up all the Gypsies (about 5 million people) and relocating them in a Gypsy Homeland in Central India? () unesco.org news.bbc.co.uk Re: Turkey is seen as being different. Its a Muslim country but also the seat of a Christian religion. It used to. Ever since 1453 and the fall of Constantinople to Mehmet II's Otman Turks, Orthodox Christians have been but a religious minority among others.... Re: Besides, Europeans already have shown a reluctance to enter into ME crusades as you noted above. But were they heeded? Did Tony Blair pay heed to British public opinion over the Iraq war? Did Berlusconi take heed of Italian opinion? Did Aznar heed Spain's public opinion? No, no, and no! So, tell me why European leaders ought to give heed to public opinion when it comes to Turkey? After all, unlike the bloody mess in Iraq, nobody's gonna die of it.... Re: In the meantime, I think many European nations could face a major influx of Turks if Turkey is admitted now. Maybe in ten years the Turks will have raised their standard of living to a point where it will discourage a Diaspora to the West but until they do, I think the current status should be maintained. Scaremongers spun the same story back in the early 1980s when the then EEC was about to welcome Spain and Portugal. French populists particularly foreboded a massive influx of cheap labor and products (wines, fruit,...) into France. However, the opposite happened: many Spaniards (or their better educated children) who had emigrated in the 1960s and 1970s moved back to what soon became Europe's hottest economy (Spain still enjoys a higher GDP growth). Besides, the EU has the most serious problems with countries that will never be part of it. Just think of the current mess on the Spanish/Moroccan border...() Illegal migrants from (sub-)Saharan Africa (Mali, Nigeria, Ivory Coast, Senegal,...), Ukraine (there are already over 200,000 Ukrainians living in the Iberian Peninsula), and Russia/Central Asia, keep flocking to our gates. Keeping Turkey out will actually exacerbate our immigration challenges, not alleviate them. Gus () Thursday, 6 October 2005, 22:02 GMT 23:02 UK Six killed near Spain's enclave Six migrants have been shot dead in clashes with Moroccan troops after trying to cross a fence around the Spanish enclave of Melilla. Moroccan news agency MAP quoted a government official as saying that the troops opened fire in self-defence. The deaths came as Spain and Morocco finalised plans to start expelling immigrants who had illegally entered Melilla and the other enclave of Ceuta. Seventy immigrants were sent to Morocco in the first set of expulsions. They were flown to mainland Spain before being taken by boat to Morocco. Hundreds of migrants have stormed the barbed wire fences surrounding the enclaves in recent weeks. [...] news.bbc.co.uk