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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Hawkmoon who wrote (174132)	11/4/2005 3:56:34 AM
From: Wharf Rat	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

"But I also didn't like seeing 3,000 people die in the space of two hours." I didn't see any Iraqis on that list of terrorists. Red herring. This was about oil, not terrorism. When you are digging a well, and you reach the point that you are so deep that you can see stars during the day, and gravel is falling on your head, it's a good time to get out instead of digging it deeper. "We've been killing and capturing some pretty important Amirs and Lieutenants in his regime in recent weeks." Yeah; how many times have we killed the number 2 guy? 15?

To: Hawkmoon who wrote (174132)	11/7/2005 2:20:28 PM
From: Bilow	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 281500

Hi Hawkmoon; Re: "But we've found just about everyone else in his operational network. Just like we're currently doing with Zarqawi's network here in Iraq.. We've been killing and capturing some pretty important Amirs and Lieutenants in his regime in recent weeks." Is this another prediction of victory right around the corner? Attacks on our soldiers continue to slowly climb. Re: "Let's see... We're weak and that's why the Iranian President essentially performed a purge of 40 ambassadors over the past couple of days, and went off on a rant about wiping Israel off the map?? You don't think that wasn't done to roil up the masses inside and distract them from the fact that he has no idea how to solve Iran's economic problems? Such a sign of maniacal ravings was done for a purpose and it was to cover up HIS own weakness by saber rattling." Just a few months ago, you and yours were going on and on about how Bush's actions in Iraq had so scared the remaining axis of evil that they would automatically fall in line. Now, with the failure of that theory, you suggest that the saber rattling is a sign that we're winning? No, the Iranians are saber rattling because our actions in Iraq have moved their own population against us. Bush is making regress in the war on terror. Re: "As for casualty totals. None of us want to see soldiers die. HELL, I don't like seeing young brainwashed militant Arab boys dying either. But I also didn't like seeing 3,000 people die in the space of two hours (1,000 of which who's remains are still missing) as happened on 9/11." None of our activities in Iraq is doing anything to prevent another WTC attack. To stop a WTC attack we need to concentrate on better police work. What we are doing in Iraq is providing targets and pissing off the locals. Re: "People who were killed by Islamic militants brainwashed and trained by the same people who are launching suicide bombs in Iraq." This is not quite true. You've just gone on about how many of these guys we've killed. Evidently the ones carrying on against us now is not the same as the ones who were carrying on against us 5 years ago. These are new recruits setting off car bombs in Iraq. But more importantly, our problem in Iraq is not suicide bombs but instead IEDs and the IEDs are not being built by the same people who set off the WTC attack. The IEDs are now being imported into the country from Iran, that country I heard so much about being so cowed by our actions in Iraq that they would never give us any more trouble. Remember back when I was talking about how long the borders of Iraq are, as compared with the borders of South Korea? Now we are paying the price for ignoring the exigencies of warfare. Re: "What will make this a hopeless war is if we leave and we leave the Iraqi kids to be brainwashed and turned into martyrs and sent off to wage "Jihad" in some other country that Al Qai'da wants to rule." The only way to defeat Al Qaeda is with standard police work in the countries that Al Qaeda works in. If the locals don't want to stop Al Qaeda, Al Qaeda will continue on. I agree that after we leave things will continue to degrade in the Middle East. But it's not like we have a choice. If we stay, the locals will slowly turn the heat up on us and eventually the US public will no longer support an occupation. We can either leave now or we can leave later. The difference is so many thousands of US soldiers dead. All we do by sticking around is further train the locals in defeating modern combat forces by guerilla warfare. We cut our own military's advantage by sticking around. Welcome to the future. You created it. Your big mistake was thinking that the middle east was already in such bad condition that nothing Bush's incompetent ass could do to it would make it worse. Wait till you see what happens to our economy when the fighting engulfs Saudi Arabia and the oil stops. -- Carl