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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: michael97123 who wrote (175276)	11/18/2005 1:35:30 PM
From: Orcastraiter	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

From what I understand, the "good Iraqis" will have to defend themselves and their fledgling nation with AK 47's from the backs of unarmored flatbeds and pickups. Per the report to the Senate last month, There is only one Iraqi Unit capable of independent operation, and this after 2.5 years of occupation. The amount of money it's going to take to equip and train the "good Iraqis" is going to be staggering. The additional $50 billion on the table in the current budget negotiations (hung up because of the torture ban language!) is to maintain the US presence...not to arm and train Iraqis. Reports indicate that much of the money spent on equipment for the "good Iraqis" was spent on old surplus stuff, that is slightly better than junk. If the goal was to prepare Iraqis for their self defense, then we have failed at that task. I've yet to see a budget item that fully entails the cost for such equipping and training. Then there is the subsequent support of such a force. If we need $50 billion a year for our forces now...a similar amount will be needed to support the "good Iraqis". This administration has not been forthcoming with the Congress and the American people about the costs and timing of transferring the defense of Iraq to Iraqis. This makes me think that the real plan is to continue the occupation and construction of permanent military bases in Iraq. Nothing from this administration has indicated otherwise, either in the record of what has transpired, or in the plan for what's ahead. Orca

To: michael97123 who wrote (175276)	11/18/2005 2:12:43 PM
From: cnyndwllr	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

Hi Michael. Welcome back. Ed

To: michael97123 who wrote (175276)	11/18/2005 6:13:00 PM
From: rich evans	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

Mike, I agree with your analysis and plan. I would only add that we should leave behind some special op guys like we used in Afgan to coordinate our air support, recon, embed etc. But this would not take many people. We did this in Afgan and took Kabul with the Northern Alliance with just a few guys. Rich

To: michael97123 who wrote (175276)	11/18/2005 7:12:44 PM
From: bentway	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

"We can then surround and contain them and bomb them to hell if they mess with terror and wmds. " Weren't we doing that with Saddam?

To: michael97123 who wrote (175276)	11/20/2005 11:41:31 AM
From: stockman_scott	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

Murtha is speaking for the Pentagon: they've had it, simple. tpmcafe.com Re: Topic for Discussion (5.00 / 2) (#41) by verte on Nov 19, 2005 -- 09:40:51 PM EST Murtha is speaking for the Pentagon: they've had it, simple. And Murtha has middle america credentials. The shrill mania of the push-back shows where the Republicans are now: in very deep doo-doo. The Republican congress is in the process of splitting into those who realize that Bush is a disaster for the party and the country and those who are addicted to the Kool-aid. This will get more intense as all the ordnance now arriving gets a target lock: Fitzgerald hasn't begun, neither has Able Danger, the torture stuff...I don't think the Dems are wimps, they're just unwilling to devolve for power. If America is so dumb that it buys the Bush inversion, just sit back and watch the consequences roll in. The Republicans have the power spiel down, but where has it led them? Down the rathole of moral iniquity. But there are Republicans with a conscience and with a deep sense of shame. The party faithful will try to crucify them but it won't wash, just as Murtha only gains credibility from the attacks. All the polarizing hooey will continue, but with less and less of the country's ear. This week has been the turning point. Bit by bit, this country will re-gain its fundamental sense of decency, bit by bit, the executive conspiracy against the congress and the people will be revealed, and bit by bit, a new bipartisan coalition of the sane will emerge in congress to lead us out of this gruesome mess.