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Politics : View from the Center and Left -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Lane3 who wrote (6310)	12/7/2005 12:03:04 PM
From: epicure	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 542169

Since we are the government, as we are the "we" in We the people, we could reform it. But most people want their benefits- so they don't. Hence, if you suck down treats from the government, it's not extortion. If you stop sucking, and start fighting for change, you might get it. If most people don't agree with you, isn't that democracy rather than extortion?

To: Lane3 who wrote (6310)	12/7/2005 12:14:26 PM
From: Ilaine	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 542169

I don't think Tim means anything more elevated than that he doesn't like paying taxes (who does?) and he doesn't directly benefit from a lot of the things he pays for (who does?) and he doesn't get to decide what he's paying for, either (who does?). Justice Kennedy said something amusing about the American Revolution -- he didn't think it was about "taxation without representation" -- because nobody likes taxation with representation, either!

To: Lane3 who wrote (6310)	12/10/2005 3:45:19 PM
From: TimF	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 542169

You give money and expect value in return. These entities are collectively known as businesses. It's what they're about. If you don't get good value from them, you take your business elsewhere. If they won't let you take your business elsewhere, that's extortion. Perhaps that's where Tim got the extortion notion. Something like that. The government model and the business model are different, seems to me. Applying one to the other seems weird to me. Why? Its not really as much applying a business model to government. If someone didn't provide any services but took your money without asking for your consent than it would be extortion. If a non-profit took your money to help other people and you had no choice in that matter (or if initially you did and you still wanted to give, but decided you didn't like the way they operated and you wanted to "take your business elsewhere" but where not allowed to) it would also be extortion. The basic difference is that I don't grant government a special privileged position. If something is immoral in other contexts I would say its also immoral if the government does it. It may be justifiable in a way that the actions of private individuals doing the same thing would not be, but that just makes it a necessary evil. Tim