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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: cnyndwllr who wrote (178219)	12/19/2005 4:37:07 PM
From: Suma	Respond to of 281500

I don't know whether or not you caught the special by Brokaw last night on the troops who were from a small town in upstate NY.. Glenn Falls. They did a segment where they started filming these friends who had enlisted into the National Guard together. They were high school,pool hall, beer hall buddies and they never thought that they would be in for a war. They were about 23 when their unit got sent to Iraq... The story was poignant. For one thing the one jokester in the group made a video for his girl friend. Just in the event I don't come back he said as he looked into the camera and told her how much she meant to him. It gives me the goose bumps to write this. They were in an open truck.. Not a metal plated one when the missile struck. The jokester got killed immediately. The one jumped out of the truck and started firing at the area where the firing on them was coming from. He must have had some kills as he is plagued about it now that he is home. One of the buddies who played the guitar lost all the fingers on his left hand. Another had shrapnel in his leg.. Those that survived ended up at Walter Reed and a long intensive recovery. The one soldier stated that many Viet Nam Vets came to see them and they would shed tears together. This broke my heart too. They are all home now. They are going through a terrible RE adjustment. They miss the noise. It's too quiet. They are not able to sleep at night. They have nightmares. All have PTSS..and know it. As they plan what to do with the rest of their lives Brokow interviews them.. They all are solid army and believe in what they were there for . The mother of the young man who died fought for a long time with the government for better protection as those 7 were in an open back truck... No protection at all and this was about the time the information about their not being sufficient protective armor over there was emerging.. One boy is off to Temple.. He was a corpsman and does not ever want to do medicine again. Another wants to start college but the Army will not allow him to do it until he is discharged. They all have to go through a lot of red tape to have their money continue for therapy.. The one who played the guitar has a grotesque looking hand as they tried to reattach a few fingers. One has terrible dents in his forehead and scars all over his shaved head. It was a good film and it did not play politics. It just showed an accurate portrayal of what our young men go through.. and what war is like . Of course you and Uncle West know and I suspect some others on here do also.

To: cnyndwllr who wrote (178219)	12/20/2005 7:02:22 AM
From: unclewest	Respond to of 281500

I wonder what the numbers are for the 5% of Vietnam veterans who actually saw combat. What are the guys you keep up with from your personal service experience (not from the right wing groups you're a part of) saying about the Iraq war and whether we should dig in our heels and never accept less than total "victory" or not? Ed, The only groups I belong to are SFA and the VFW. SFA is 100% apolitical. Their position is they support the commander in chief regardless of party. The VFW is pretty much 50-50. I just returned from my second visit to Ft Bragg since November. I spoke with several dozen Nam Vets last Thursday at an old-timers breakfast. Nobody sees any significant political or military parallels with Nam. This is a completely different war. During both trips, I spoke with even more Iraq and Afghan vets. They believe in their mission and are waiting anxiously and willingly to go back. Most for a fourth (7 month) tour some for a fifth. Last Wed I attended an SF Class graduation. 32 new warriors. Spoke with several and their families. They are ready to serve anywhere, anytime, under any conditions. A much larger class finishes in february. We are fortunate to have such men. Every war needs a political resolution. Both Afghan and Iraq just about have one. Everyone agrees, we need to provide security while they learn to stand up. As you consider what is happening at home, remember the American left wing has been opposed to the war and repeatedly predicted failure for a long time. They have a lot to lose if the terrorists lose. Don't drink their kool aid. uw

To: cnyndwllr who wrote (178219)	12/20/2005 11:50:21 AM
From: michael97123	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

The true similarity of the wars is that they are both guerilla in nature. We had problems just like the french in vietnam even though we were NOT a colonial power. We are now having iraqi problems like the brits. UW feels we can overcome this if MSM and leftys get out of the way--stay the course sans criticism. He might be right but we are a democracy and have certain freedoms that we cannot give up. So tap the phones of terrorists yet, but stifle dissent, nope. With these rules, it is harder to win a guerilla war if they are winnable at all. What i will say, is that now for real we are entering the most critical time in iraq. I am hoping that alawi becomes PM and that the nascent iraqi forces perform better that you and i suspect. In that case a somewhat secure, somewhat democratic, somewhat federal iraq can take its place with a new more inclusive constitution in place. And one more thing, give them a timetable at least for active american participation in this war. I do believe that resistance coalesces around our presence and becomes stronger as we become more aggressive. Fall back support positions for US troops if this makes sense. Let the iraqis duke it out and use American troops only when its clear we can take out especially the foreign terrorist insurents. mike