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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: michael97123 who wrote (178314)	12/20/2005 3:13:12 PM
From: cnyndwllr	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 281500

Michael, re: "I am hoping that alawi becomes PM and that the nascent iraqi forces perform better than you and i suspect. In that case a somewhat secure, somewhat democratic, somewhat federal iraq can take its place with a new more inclusive constitution in place. Micheal, that's the cheese in the mousetrap that's Iraq. We can all hope that someday soon moderates will rule Iraq and that the "nascent Iraqi forces" suddenly become so committed to that moderate leadership and their goals that they get the backbone to fight and, if necessary, die for the ideals WE believe in. That's the carrot Bush keeps dangling but is it realistic? Hell no, it's all magical thinking. Many of us buy into it because our brains automatically jump from "democracy" to "benevolent rule of law by the people." Based on long conditioning, our own democratic experience and an "our team" mentality we DO NOT examine the underlying premise that true democracy is beneficial for all cultures and societies. The fact is that it isn't and many nations are discovering that sad fact. If a culture of tolerance, a deep appreciation for the principle that we must protect the rights of the least among us if we want to protect our own rights, and a deep respect for the judiciary and the principle of separation of church and state are not entrenched in a society then what kind of democracy will it be capable of? Iraq is a prime example of a society and a culture which will not, left on its own, survive as a democracy. The majority Shiites are not tolerant, they do not believe in the principle of separation of church and state, (on the contrary they believe that the state should be ruled by the laws of Islam,) their culture is not big on protecting the rights of women, Bathists, Christians, or any other minorities, and their view of a judiciary that must be respected is limited to a judiciary that administers their view of Islamic law. If I was an Iraqi non-Shiite I wouldn't be rooting for a good, old fashioned, majority rule democracy in that country, would you? And the evidence is there to be seen. Watch which candidates win this election. If it's fairly counted it will be the Shiite religious list, not the secular list. So what are we gaining by promoting a "democracy" in Iraq? What good will it do to have a government empowered there with intolerant, deeply religious and radical views in Iraq? How will that benefit the region the US or the world? Remember what Bush Sr. did when he realized the Shiites were chanting "Ayatolla Al Hakim?" He let Saddam shoot them down and remain in power. Let's call it like it is; the entire Middle East, if left to vote freely, would vote out most current regimes and vote in the Islamists. And that's at least partly due to our recent actions in the region. South American voters are voting for socialist leaders. Many nations are furious with our high handed, "we know what's good for you and, by god, you'll do it" approach. We need to butt out and let other cultures figure it out for themselves cause what we're doing now ain't working for shit. Ed