SI
SI
discoversearch

We've detected that you're using an ad content blocking browser plug-in or feature. Ads provide a critical source of revenue to the continued operation of Silicon Investor.  We ask that you disable ad blocking while on Silicon Investor in the best interests of our community.  If you are not using an ad blocker but are still receiving this message, make sure your browser's tracking protection is set to the 'standard' level.
Politics : Dutch Central Bank Sale Announcement Imminent? -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: philv who wrote (24085)1/14/2006 1:10:24 PM
From: sea_urchin  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 81028
 
Phil > Iran has a special designation, being a member of the Axis of Evil.

Therefore why should Iran accede to the demands of the West? Iran saw what happened to Iraq and knows it is damned if it does and damned if it doesn't. If you were in Ahmadinejad's shoes, would you give up your nuclear ambition?

> What they really want is world wide control

That seems to be it but actually I think it has more to do with the problems and religious fantasies surrounding Israel. Indeed, I would describe the War on Terror as being closer to a Crusade than to any other kind of war.

> countries like Iran and North Korea are not yet open to political and economic control by the west

That's for a start but the fantasy will not end. The idea that one nation can control the whole world, or even the Middle East, can only be described as madness. And there's no doubt that this madness is also having severe repercussions in the US, itself, where Constitutional rights are being swept aside in favour of Biblical dogma and neo-fascist tyranny.

> China, on the other hand, is well under way towards political integration, as her new found wealth and status is dependant upon Western ties and continued investment.

That's a matter of opinion. At the moment, China is busy exploiting the West as it develops itself. But China has an enormous internal, and as yet undeveloped, market which will render it increasingly independent of the West. Indeed, it is the West which needs the cheap goods which China produces in order to keep its own inflation "under control" -- not forgetting that the US needs China to buy its debt in order to stay solvent.

> It will be interesting if these two, Russia and China, will back Iran

I have no doubt they will. They know that, after Iran, their turn is next. So it suits both of them to keep the conflict in and with Iran rather than let it get closer to themselves which it would do if Iran "fell".

> The selfless arms of the West are wide open, ready and willing to warmly embrace the last few holdouts to the New World Order, such as Iran.

No comment.

> All they have to do is to say "I do", forget about their own nationalistic ambitions, and simply allow themselves to be swept away, contentedly, in that wonderful embrace of love, and dream of the orgasmic future which lies ahead.

You must have been thinking about Angela Merkel when you wrote that.



To: philv who wrote (24085)1/17/2006 5:18:20 AM
From: GUSTAVE JAEGER  Respond to of 81028
 
Re: It will be interesting if these two, Russia and China, will back Iran, where they both have extensive commercial interests, or if they will stand aside, perhaps reluctantly, as they did in the Balkans, Afghanistan and Iraq.

Like I said(*), Russia's support of Iran was never more than a hypocritical posture. Iran's one and only true ally is China and, unlike western pundits spin it, China's siding with Iran is not motivated by oil/energy interests only. The Chinese are all too aware that, after Iran, THEIR turn is next. If Iran, already an (central) Asian country, falls like a house of cards then nothing will stop the Pentagon hardliners from pushing their luck with China herself --be it over Taiwan or Tibet or North Korea. At that point, who/which country will stand up for China if China never stood up for anybody?

As for Russia, it doesn't take a geopolitics genius to figure out that she doesn't want a nuclear Iran in addition to a nuclear Pakistan, the combined power of which spreading all across Muslim Central Asia (Afghanistan, Tajikistan, Khazakstan, Uzbekistan,...)

Iran crisis talks expose west's split with China

· Europe seeks Tehran's referral to security council
· Major obstacles remain in row over nuclear weapons

Ewen MacAskill and Nick Paton Walsh in Moscow

Tuesday January 17, 2006
The Guardian


Differences between the west and Russia and China were exposed yesterday during a meeting in London to discuss strategy for tackling the crisis over Iran's suspected nuclear weapons programme.

After seven hours of talks Britain, France and Germany announced they are to seek Iran's referral to the security council at a meeting on February 2 and 3 of the UN's nuclear watchdog, the International Atomic Energy Agency.

Javier Solana, the EU foreign affairs chief, said he was "confident" Russia and China will back the referral.

But both countries expressed serious reservations about future handling of the crisis, in particular the prospect of the security council imposing sanctions on Iran.

Russia, though slowly shifting towards the west's position, is still holding out hope that Tehran may yet accept a compromise. China, which has close economic ties with Iran, is the most hardline in opposing tough action against Tehran.

One European diplomat said: "What is really crucial is support from Russia and China. China does not look too good. China is the major obstacle."

He added that China, which has a veto on the security council, felt squeezed between pressure from the west and dependency on Iranian oil.

A British diplomat said: "There was serious concern about Iranian moves to restart enrichment-related activities contrary to the appeals of the international community not to do so." He added that "there was a thorough exchange of views" on the role of the security council.

The crisis escalated last week when Iran broke seals on uranium enrichment equipment. Iran denies that it has a covert nuclear weapons programme.

The London meeting between senior officials from the US, Britain, France, China and Russia - the five permanent members of the UN security council - plus Germany, was held to try to avoid a repetition of the security council divisions that marked the run-up to the war in Iraq. The west's fear is that China could exercise its veto on Iran's behalf.

The Europeans have begun drafting a resolution to put before the IAEA. "It's short. It calls for [IAEA chief Mohamed] ElBaradei to report Iran to the UN security council," one diplomat said. The western nations have a simple majority in favour of referral but are hoping that Russia and China will back it. The US and Europeans are focusing on Russia in the hope that if Moscow backs their approach, then China will also follow.

President Vladimir Putin, after meeting Angela Merkel on her first visit to Moscow as German chancellor, signalled exasperation with Iran's decision to break the seals. Indicating he was moving towards the west's position, he said: "As for Russia, and Germany, and our European partners and the US, we have very close positions on the Iranian problem."

But he cautioned against "abrupt, erroneous steps" and suggested the issue could still be defused without reference to the UN. He said Iran has not excluded the possibility of accepting a Russian compromise in which Tehran would conduct uranium enrichment in Russia rather than Iran. "One of the main problems is the enrichment of uranium. We proposed to our Iranian partners to set up a joint enrichment venture on Russian territory ... our partners told us they did not exclude the implementation of our proposal."

But China, speaking before the London meeting, said resorting to the security council would "complicate the issue", citing Iran's threat to hit back by halting snap UN inspections at its atomic plants.

The Chinese foreign minister said "all relevant sides should remain restrained and stick to solving the Iranian nuclear issue through negotiations".

Jack Straw, the foreign secretary, said that dialogue with Moscow and Beijing was of "crucial importance".

Iran yesterday banned CNN journalists from the country after the broadcaster misquoted President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad as saying that Iran wanted nuclear weapons, the ISNA students news agency said.

What happens next

Vienna
Europeans plan emergency IAEA meeting on February 2. Iran will try to avoid referral to security council by reopening talks with Russia

New York Once before the security council, the resolution could tell Iran to suspend uranium enrichment. If ignored, talks would get tougher as US and Europe sought sanctions

Tehran Iran could then scrap deal on intrusive nuclear checks, and disrupt oil supplies if sanctions imposed

US/Israel Air strikes could begin to delay Iran's work on nuclear weapon.

guardian.co.uk

(*) Message 21836997